Solar Panel Guide Discussion

keith_r59

Cardew wrote: »

They didn't when they were selling double glazing, so why change?

Depends on which double glazing firm you use. As with most things, if you use a national company then you will get a salesman; use a local company and you will get a tradesman.

thenudeone

Doc_N wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what's the thinking behind the signature:

" If my post has helped or amused you, please click "Thanks" "

Is it just me, or does that put other people off clicking the 'thanks' button?

Do you prefer my new one?

Doc_N

thenudeone wrote: »

Do you prefer my new one?

Very much so.

zorber

lotteryman wrote: »

I'm in the process of looking into installing these systems and it seems they're a bit like Marmite; you love them or hate them!

I've read loads of the threads and looked at the various reports and it would seem that some of my early experiences fit into the 'double glazing' category.
I had one company that 'postponed' an appointment because I told him straight that I would not sign to buy until I'd had 3 or 4 quotes and compared systems.
I've just had a quote from one of the companies highlighted in the main articles on FiTs on this site. The company is using the referenced article on their web site as part of their credibility as a supplier.
The quote I got was for just shy of 14K. Having done some research on the costs of the panels they propose to fit I've found they are charging around £840 per panel but the same panels can be bought on the open market for around £640. Multiply that £200 by 14 panels and that's £2800 markup. Similarly the inverter they quoted at a price of £2265 and this can be obtained for around £1300. Not bad markups eh? especially as the company will be buying them at well below the retail prices I found. This would seem to support many of the comments in the forums about companies.:(
Needless to say I will be going back to them about the prices but I suspect there will be little flexibility.

I suppose this just confirms that you need to do the research and challenge the companies to provide a detailed breakdown of the costs.

This is what i have found too, the best buy in the newsletter are also in some cases the most uncompetitive and are relying on the publicity making sales for them, just like people believing that tesco prices are really 20% off ( which i may add they are now advertising as extending the deal through september) this is another form of pressure sales - buy now of the price will increase. Some of my best quotes have been by using the presentations do by companies like tesco and emailing the Diagrams of the roof lay out and asking for like for like quotes to all the local fitters in my area. Use the mcs data base to find your local companies

Lemoncurd

MarcusH wrote: »

I'm sure my own calculations are more accurate, by including measuring internally in the loft space.

Two companies measured our roof this way. They both quoted for 18 of a particular panel. The company we chose also came back to do a second survey up on the roof before going ahead.
They came to fit it and there was absolutely no way that 18 would fit! It was a squeeze to get 16 up there.

Cardew

PendragonUK wrote: »

ADVICE FROM THE INSIDE:

11. Ask about Waranty; panel warranties should be 25 Years with 5-10 years at a minimum of 90% of the stated output and the balance of the term at 80%, the inverter guarentee should be 5-7 years (hard to get longer).
FINALLY COST:

We fit large scale (400+ property orders) at an average of less than £3.00 watt (an average 3 bed should handle a 10 panel say 2.3KW system quite comfortably which equates to £6,900). Open markt this is likely to set you back around £8,500.

Our 2.3 KW systems (monitored) are currently overperforming their design performance by around 20%. So the above systems in Birmingham (returns vary regionally) are returning £900 PA or (without inflation increases) 22.5K over the 25 years. FIT payment is tax free so blows socks off any ISA (but remember allow a cost of say £1000 in year 10 and again in year 20 for replacing the Inverter!)

Great post!

A couple of observations. In my experience very long guarantees from an installer aren't worth the paper they are written on; especially(historically) in the solar 'industry'.

Loads of the big solar thermal firms(especially those based in the Dorset area) regularly cease trading and open up the next day with the same premises, equipment and personel, but with a different name.

I doubt if many of the firms trading today will be around for after-sales support when the present rush to install systems is over.

Obviously that won't apply to Manufacturer's warranties on panels etc.

Secondly, given that scaffolding seems to cost the earth, shouldn't the bigger systems be cheaper(per wp)?

Freepost

PendragonUK wrote: »

ADVICE FROM THE INSIDE:

I too thought it a great post but it has caused me to ask the following questions ... hope you can help;

9. Do you want a smart meter? - If you are likely to use more than 50% of the electric you generate then NO you don't you just want a cheap and cheerful generation meter, otherwise then yes you do. In any event you want telemetric (a sim card in the generation meter) monitoring that you can have on your home computer. This can be directly (cost say £5 a month in texts + one off software cost) or via a web portal (cost say £12 month including warning e-mails). The reason for this is if you don't generate you don't get paid your FIT and if your system stops working how do you know if it is not being monitored!

Don’t the Inverters have a Lan port or wireless capability for connection over a home network? If so why the £5.00/month ..£60/a

10. Ask what the panel and inverter make is and how they system is designed or selected to ensure best inverter match and size is chosen. The design ideally should have the inverter running about 115-120% at peak (July/August) and at 80-90% during the cold months. This is important for inverter life.

How do we match the Inverter to the panels? I had assumed that if you have a 4kWp system that you would have an Inverter of that capability but this assumption has been blown out of the water by Tescos offering me 16 x Sharp NU250 (4kWp) with a Diehl Platinum 3800s (3.8kW) Inverter. This doesn't seem to match, haven't I got a 5% loss here between panels and inverter. But an additional thought/complication in my mind is that I understand that the maximum output from the system to the network can not exceed 16Amps, isn't that 3.68kW. I imagine that my understanding of the systems are not correct but unless we know how to work it out aren't we going to have the wool pulled over our eyes if we're not very very careful?

12. Ask about inverter life; if you are borrowing money to fund your Solar Panels you need to factor in 2 (yes 2) replacements. Inverters are getting better by the month but even now 12 years is a fantastic life span even for the best makes. Incidentally this is why the design relationship between panel and inverter is crucial run them too 'hot' and it shortens their life run them too 'cold' and you lose output.

Again, it's about matching the panels and inverter. Please provide an example of how we match these.

13. Ask about panel size v output, for instance we use different manufacturers that in the 999mm x 1600mm panel format produce panels with an outputs of 230, 235 and 330, the largest output is not neccessarily the best value - that depends on the system design!

Not quite sure what you mean here but if I take the £3.00/W figure that you referred to previously then I assume that £12k for a 4kWp system is good value and likewise £9K for a 3kWp system?

F.

Cardew

Freepost wrote: »

How do we match the Inverter to the panels? I had assumed that if you have a 4kWp system that you would have an Inverter of that capability but this assumption has been blown out of the water by Tescos offering me 16 x Sharp NU250 (4kWp) with a Diehl Platinum 3800s (3.8kW) Inverter. This doesn't seem to match, haven't I got a 5% loss here between panels and inverter. But an additional thought/complication in my mind is that I understand that the maximum output from the system to the network can not exceed 16Amps, isn't that 3.68kW. I imagine that my understanding of the systems are not correct but unless we know how to work it out aren't we going to have the wool pulled over our eyes if we're not very very careful?

.

Having a 4kWp system doesn't mean that you will get 4kW output. It achieves that under laboratory conditions of temperature, 'sunlight' etc.

Some systems particularly down south will exceed 4kW others will never reach 4kW. In any case the maximum output will only be achieved for a limited time.

I believe that the reasoning(no idea if it is a reasonable assumption) behind fitting a lower rated inverter is that they are more efficient. So what you lose on the rare ocassions the panels generate in excess of the rated capacity of the inverter is more than compensated by a slighly higher efficiency for the great majority of the time.

It is also pertinent that the output of the panels reduces slightly year on year(0.5% per year?)

agentsmith

Did anyone manage to extend the Diehl Invertor warranty to 20yrs? Can this be done via any reseller or does it need to be done at time of purchase? (Looking at tesco)

Seperately, I had a tesco solar visit from their subcontractor yesterday. It was not Mark solar, but in2solar or something similar? Anyone happen to catch the company name? thx.

digitaltoast

Freepost wrote: »

I too thought it a great post

Me too - so why has it vanished? I've PM'd a mod who can shed some light onto why an interesting and useful post with so many reccs has vanished.