Solar Panel Guide Discussion

zeupater

HeyRevolver wrote: »

Hi... a month or two after i'd had my solar panels installed my electricity company asked me for my electricity meter reading. It was then I realised my meter was running backwards. I now know this is a common problem. I informed my electricity supplier Scottish Power (my FiT is with British Gas). I'm told I will have my electricity meter changed (still waiting a month later).

In the meantime they are still estimating my readings - over estimating now I have solar panels.

Any one experienced this. I just wonder how they will settle this ? They will eventually have to bill me on my actual usage won't they ? They surely can't charge me a final bill on a reading they've estimated can they ?

Any experiences would be of interest...

Hi

They can and likely will ....

The most probable starting point is 50% of your generation as that's what the deemed export is on your FiT payment. I'd start doing some calculations/estimations on how much your electricity usage has actually reduced by so that you are prepared to counter their own estimate.

Typically, if they do estimate 50% of generation is exported it'll not be too bad (as in you'll gain o/a) as it's likely that 70%-75% of your production has been driving the meter backwards .... however they could actually estimate the saving as being anything up to 100% of generation and leave it to you to disprove their figures .....

On the FiT application form there's usually a tick-box to ask whether the meter runs backwards, so unless the BG form doesn't include this I don't really understand how this was not forseen ... even if the installer filled in the form and ticked the box it would be the customers' responsibility to read and understand the form prior to signing and submission.

To be on the safe side, I'd be ensuring that I was putting a value equivalent to 75% of generation x the import electricity price (tier 2 rate) aside whilst the situation exists.

HTH
Z

HeyRevolver

Thanks zeupater. I don't remember seeing such a tick box on the BG form. The BG form was a very short simple form which is why i went with them. Yes take your point that it's something I maybe should have been aware of but like a lot of people I only ever check my meter readings when asked and it's just not something I thought about it. I'll post how I get on once all resolved.

WestonDave

There will be an estimation process (as clearly you aren't going to get a refund!) however this is going to have to be very reasonable to you. It is their responsibility to provide a working meter and as they haven't its going to be pretty hard for them to stand before a court or the regulator to try to enforce an excessive bill based on over estimated usage. They can't simply use previous patterns of use because you will now be using at least some of your solar energy especially as you've carefully reviewed all your habits and made the most of the savings available by using free solar rather than grid power and have probably also identified other wastes due to your now increased awareness of electricity usage etc ( nudge wink etc).

The advice above is wise in terms of keeping money back, but I would suggest rather than the onus being on you to disprove their figures, its on them to prove theirs are reasonable given that its their responsibility to bill accurately and they haven't bothered to change the meter quickly.

(Incidentally EDF don't have a box on their form - my case will be interesting as they are not only FiT admin and billing supplier, but also the area grid company so arguably they knew about my 4kWp system before it was installed due to having to get prior permission for it!)

KevinG

zeupater wrote: »

On the FiT application form there's usually a tick-box to ask whether the meter runs backwards, so unless the BG form doesn't include this I don't really understand how this was not forseen ...

Indeed, and I have ticked the box on two separate FiT applications to Scottish Power now, the first nearly two years ago, no action as yet. As I only have a 2kWp system I have not yet had a case where my reading from month to month has actually gone down, but with a 4kWp system it probably would have.

Incidentally, if they do eventually assess my underpayment on the basis of 50% of export, which is about all they can reasonably do, there is the additional complication that some of it will have been at the cheap rate, e.g. mornings before 0730 GMT (0830 BST) for the solar panels and quite a bit more for the Micro CHP boiler.

shafeeq

zeupater wrote: »

On the FiT application form there's usually a tick-box to ask whether the meter runs backwards, so unless the BG form doesn't include this I don't really understand how this was not forseen ... even if the installer filled in the form and ticked the box it would be the customers' responsibility to read and understand the form prior to signing and submission.

HTH
Z

I had solar panel installed on 6th June 2012. My meter goes backward but only the last digit. It doesn't go any further back. So whatever I use it goes back.

I am with Npower, it took 2 months to get FIT registration with them. On the form it states does the meter go backward. I ticked yes. Npower have not done anything.

My last reading was given in July, when next reading is given, it will be same as previous reading, it will be interesting to see what they do about.

I don't understand that they asked you the question on form and you answer it but they don't do anything about it.

Shafeeq

zeupater

Hi Westondave

If it was unfortunate enough to go to court the likely defence would simply be contract law and a clause in the supply contract which places a responsibility on the householder to inform the supplier if the meter was misreading ... which it obviously is.

Whether a multi-national would bother taking a case to court for such small returns is questionable, however it isn't unknown and they actually do it on a daily basis .... all they would need to do is produce the contract clause and evidence based on industry averaged benefits from solar pv and the onus would fall on the householder to prove that the estimate is unreasonable, which would be extremely unlikely ....

I would certainly recommend that anyone who has a backward-running meter report this directly to their power provider and move to clear the issue as soon as possible .... knowing that the meter runs backwards and doing nothing (contrary to likely supply contract clauses) in order to make financial gain would place anyone in a potentially very unenviable position ...

HTH
Z

zeupater

shafeeq wrote: »

I had solar panel installed on 6th June 2012. My meter goes backward but only the last digit. It doesn't go any further back. So whatever I use it goes back.

Hi shafeeq

If it's just the last digit which runs backwards then stops it's probably/possibly the way the 'ratchet' system works ...

Our meter is analogue and the 'wheel' reverses a proportion of one revolution before the ratchet stops it going any further .... the meter has a symbol (which looks a little like a waterwheel) printed on it to confirm that it will not run backwards.

HTH
Z

shafeeq

zeupater wrote: »

Hi shafeeq

If it's just the last digit which runs backwards then stops it's probably/possibly the way the 'ratchet' system works ...

Our meter is analogue and the 'wheel' reverses a proportion of one revolution before the ratchet stops it going any further .... the meter has a symbol (which looks a little like a waterwheel) printed on it to confirm that it will not run backwards.

HTH
Z

Hi Z

I will look for the symbol again but im sure I couldn't find one. For example I had my PV Installed on 6th June 2012

My meter reading was 61693 (example) The meter goes back to 61690, no further. So when I use electrcity via the grid the final digit goes up, but when the extra energy is generated by SP the last digit wipes out what I use. After month of Solar panel when requested Npower for my meter reading for my Bill to be generated I give the meter reading which was 61690.

So it will be interesting to see what happens when they request my next reading.

My estimated electrcity use for the year is 1,621 kwh, before solar panels so it will be interesting how they work out how much I use.

Shafeeq

zeupater

shafeeq wrote: »

Hi Z

I will look for the symbol again but im sure I couldn't find one. For example I had my PV Installed on 6th June 2012

My meter reading was 61693 (example) The meter goes back to 61690, no further. So when I use electrcity via the grid the final digit goes up, but when the extra energy is generated by SP the last digit wipes out what I use. After month of Solar panel when requested Npower for my meter reading for my Bill to be generated I give the meter reading which was 61690.

So it will be interesting to see what happens when they request my next reading.

My estimated electrcity use for the year is 1,621 kwh, before solar panels so it will be interesting how they work out how much I use.

Shafeeq

Hi

If it's whole kWh's reversing then the meter is going a little further backwards than I would expect, I thought that the 'last digit' referred to Wh ... even if you have ticked the meter reversing box on the FiT application form it would be wise to inform your electricity supplier directly of what you have noticed ....

HTH
Z

shafeeq

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

If it's whole kWh's reversing then the meter is going a little further backwards than I would expect, I thought that the 'last digit' referred to Wh ... even if you have ticked the meter reversing box on the FiT application form it would be wise to inform your electricity supplier directly ....

HTH
Z

Hi

I just went to Npower website to email and had a chat with a live person. They says it's not their department to contact microgeneration department with 084 number..... arrrrgggg

I saved the chat, I told the person that I have already mention about the meter going backward on the form and they havn't done anything. The person says it's nothing to do with them.

Shafeeq