Solar Panel Guide Discussion

HalloweenJack

zeupater

your right , especially that last reply in your post - it is very misleading , and direct clarification was hastily needed before someone went to a court with it.

If the homeowner would like to buyout after a supplier such as HomeSun supplies, installs and commissions a system on their property, the 5% reduced VAT rate would apply

as that line from homesun , is , quite frankly , totally untrue.

slacky555

Hi everyone

Well it is myself that has caused homesun to release this statement.

I had my install last January and now want to buy out.

They are not willing to either lower the buy out price to match the buy out at 5% vat or are not willing to do anything for me with regards to a guesture of good will.

What do you think my options are. As this is an extra cost of about £1500 to my buy out price.

larkim

Slacky

What does your contract say? Apart from the customer service aspect, if their contract is worded so as to read something along the lines of "buy out charge is £x,xxx (plus VAT at the prevailing rate applicable to this transaction)", then there isn't much you can do. It would help to see the contract detail.

It could well be that they were under a misapprehension about the level of VAT to be charged, and their accountant has put them straight. As they haven't yet completed the transaction with you, they are legally bound to charge the "right" amount of VAT. To be able to challenge some / part of the contract you'd have to show that you were induced into the original installation contract to a material amount by the (now apparently misrepresented) 5% VAT rate.

Matt

zeupater

larkim wrote: »

Slacky

What does your contract say? Apart from the customer service aspect, if their contract is worded so as to read something along the lines of "buy out charge is £x,xxx (plus VAT at the prevailing rate applicable to this transaction)", then there isn't much you can do. It would help to see the contract detail.

It could well be that they were under a misapprehension about the level of VAT to be charged, and their accountant has put them straight. As they haven't yet completed the transaction with you, they are legally bound to charge the "right" amount of VAT. To be able to challenge some / part of the contract you'd have to show that you were induced into the original installation contract to a material amount by the (now apparently misrepresented) 5% VAT rate.

Matt

Hi

The issue is that at the time where slacky555 was entering into the contract the prevailing rate was queried and the answer came back that it was 5% ... I believe that the calculation for the buyout costs of the systems which Krish posted were cut&paste from existing documentation .... it said 5%, the 5% was queried as being incorrect, the 5% was confirmed as being the chargeable rate, this was queried again without reply, seemingly as a result of a customer wishing to 'buy out' the correction has been made, this being over a year later.

Considering that slacky555 paricipated in the discussions at the time the clarification would likely be seen as being a particularly strong factor should the position of Homesun be challenged .... I would also expect that any contract pre-dating the clarification, or any specific dated change to documentation which applies to this issue, would also have the same grounds to challenge the use of the 'full' prevailing VAT rate in the calculation of the final sum, rather it would be looked upon that the clarification that a reduced 5% charge would definately be made regarding VAT would constitute an addendum to the 'contract of sale' as and when the buy-out option was invoked ..... the argument could easily be made that this was a strong contributing factor towards entering the original contract, thus possibly rendering the original contract as flawed and the destroying the residual value of the materials used (pre-owned) if the decision was made for removal of the panels from an unfair contract/breach of contract basis.

This is exactly why I find this to be most interesting ..... it's pretty similar to vehicle or furniture being advertised as 'no VAT to pay' or 'VAT free' .... VAT is still payable, but the retailer has chosen to absorb the cost, so why would this be considered by an average consumer to be any different ?

HTH
Z

Cardew

slacky555 wrote: »

Hi everyone

Well it is myself that has caused homesun to release this statement.

I had my install last January and now want to buy out.

They are not willing to either lower the buy out price to match the buy out at 5% vat or are not willing to do anything for me with regards to a guesture of good will.

What do you think my options are. As this is an extra cost of about £1500 to my buy out price.

Simply take them to the Small Claims court.

Obviously they have to charge the correct rate of VAT - that is not in dispute.

However if you are given a price and entered into a contract on that basis, it is quite straightforward issue for the court to decide.

i.e. Do they have to honour that price or not?

John_Pierpoint

I would not want to try to argue the small print of a "tax point" in a small claims court and expect to win.
I don't think an ordinary trader is expected to be any more expert in tax matters that his ordinary customer is expected to be.
Do we have any disputes along the lines of "you promised to get this done and I would get the 41.3p tax rebate, now my registration has missed the deadline and I expect you to subsidise me for the next 25 years".
I think the court would take the attitude that if you don't like the taxes complain to your MP.

This is exactly why I find this to be most interesting ..... it's pretty similar to vehicle or furniture being advertised as 'no VAT to pay' or 'VAT free' .... VAT is still payable, but the retailer has chosen to absorb the cost, so why would this be considered by an average consumer to be any different ?

I think there is a subtle difference - the trader is deliberately lying to confuse the customer and create a promotion - they get away with it by claiming it is a "puff".
I am sick to death with trying to argue with people boasting that they have "avoided the tax" when they buy cheap alcohol or tickets from Ryan air. - no you have just got a cheap price and possibly cheep and nasty quality, the speed with which you "snapped up the bargain" has nothing to do with the tax.

A slightly more honest promotion would claim "we pay your tax".

Cardew

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I would not want to try to argue the small print of a "tax point" in a small claims court and expect to win.

.

I specifically stated "Obviously they have to charge the correct rate of VAT - that is not in dispute."

So I was clearly making the point that there is no point in a customer(plaintiff) disputing the rate of VAT in any court.

I don't think an ordinary trader is expected to be any more expert in tax matters that his ordinary customer is expected to be.

Totally disagree.

The issue is they have given customers a price in their contract to purchase their systems.

Even allowing that Homesun are incompetent and made an error, IMO the contract is binding - they simply cannot unilaterally change the contract.

However it is not my opinion(or yours) that counts, the Court will decide!

John_Pierpoint

Or the small print on Homesun's terms of sale available on request?
My bet is that the customer has an option and that option is a completely separate contract and subject to the rules and regulations at the time it is exercised.
With thousands of installations capable of exercising their option, Homesun will be having their aggressive lawyers look into this.
Go to court and you don't get justice you get law.
I think I would want to be a member of some sort of "Homesun action group" before going for "specific performance" on my option.

HalloweenJack

was it homesun that sent out more than 1 contract after the first was signed and returned? remember reading about that on here - the second was far longer than the first.

slacky555

I have not dug out my contract yet but the way they were talking was in the contract it does not state the vat rate as being 5% so I guess it must just say + vat and there is no figure it is the formula as posted before to work out the buy out price.

Cheers