Solar Panel Guide Discussion

jitzykins

Our Hyundai panels are self cleaning, as are most makes/models, I believe.

orrery

jitzykins wrote: »

Our Hyundai panels are self cleaning, as are most makes/models, I believe.

I believe that they are specified as self cleaning at mounting angles above 20 degrees. Mine are at exactly 20 degrees, so I'm keeping my beady eyes on them.

oldsmart

Hi, sorry don't know a great deal about PV however i am sure someone on here does so.. I want to achieve 3.8kw of power but have South roof space for only 1.0kw + 0.5kw west, can anyone advise me where to get small mcs solar panels with >250w output or a micro device that optimises the output of 250w panels ?

Martyn1981

oldsmart wrote: »

Hi, sorry don't know a great deal about PV however i am sure someone on here does so.. I want to achieve 3.8kw of power but have South roof space for only 1.0kw + 0.5kw west, can anyone advise me where to get small mcs solar panels with >250w output or a micro device that optimises the output of 250w panels ?

Standard panels (of varying sizes) produce about 150w per m2. There are some new hybrid types, Sanyo's are the best known, that produce about 200w per m2.

The micro panels I think you're referring to are simply, smaller panels. I believe there are some that are installed almost like slates. But they are expensive.

The best you'll achieve from your roof will be 200w/m2 after deducting about 200mm to 300mm all around for assorted regs and fitting. If you have a hip roof - 3 triangles rather than 2 rectangles and a brick triangle, then you'll also lose a lot of space trying to find a best fit.

If you know the roof dimensions and can post them, it shouldn't be too difficult to estimate the potential system max size.

Mart.

LittleVermin

dgworld wrote: »

I've had a cold call this week from a guy at Energy Reduction UK (www . energyreductionuk . com) who have offered to install FREE solar panels. Has anyone dealt with this company or have any experience of them?

Their website is a bit concerning to me and states they are trading as Energy Reduction Surveying Limited.

:beer: cheers for anyone with help!

Dave

Hi Dave,

Go over to https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/49824171#Comment_49824171 - the Energy Saving Group thread - and you'll find lots about Energy Reduction UK.

ESG went bust - but Energy Reduction UK was formed. Yes, same director, same registered address.

ERUK has lots of jobs going - all over. AND THEY ARE PERMANENT.

Cardew

Worth mentioning that Energy Saving Group went bust having taken £500 from hundreds of customers - who will never see their noney again.

Any firm that has risen like a 'Phoenix from the Ashes' of 'Energy Saving Group' should be avoided IMO

HomeSun_company_representative

Dear All,

This post is to clarify and correct a few posts that were made in 2010 with regard to VAT.

It has been confirmed for quite some time now that the VAT rate for a system that has already been installed and If a homeowner then decides to buy out of the lease contract the VAT would be at the prevailing rate (currently 20%).

The 5% rate is for installation of solar panels on residential properties, If a homeowner wishes to buy out of a contract - this is as a sale not an installation, therefore does not qualify for reduced rate VAT.

I hope this clarifies all posts that HomeSun has posted about VAT in the past which may have not been true.

Thank you

HomeSun Customer Services

zeupater

HomeSun_company_representative wrote: »

Dear All,

This post is to clarify and correct a few posts that were made in 2010 with regard to VAT.

It has been confirmed for quite some time now that the VAT rate for a system that has already been installed and If a homeowner then decides to buy out of the lease contract the VAT would be at the prevailing rate (currently 20%).

The 5% rate is for installation of solar panels on residential properties, If a homeowner wishes to buy out of a contract - this is as a sale not an installation, therefore does not qualify for reduced rate VAT.

I hope this clarifies all posts that HomeSun has posted about VAT in the past which may have not been true.

Thank you

HomeSun Customer Services

Hi All

This is quite a significant post ..... For reference, the original posts were likely the ones within the following sequence .....
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/39382876#Comment_39382876

Thanks Krish

Not quite straight line over 25 years, I suppose that the extra three months is to cover the administration cost of the transfer of capital assets so 1% of original assumed sales value seems reasonable.

Regarding the VAT issue, the prevailing rate for VAT is currently 17.5% and will move to 20% in January. The 5% is a reduced rate which is applicable to the sale & professional installation of new systems. It is very likely that there is a reasonable concern amongst many potential customers that, because the system will be a 'pre-owned' capital asset transfer from a generating business (not an installer) to an individual, the transfer/sale will be subject to the standard rate of tax (the prevailing rate) at the time of sale. I have been unable to substantiate that there is any dispensation available from HMRC regarding this issue .... do you have details on the dispensation you have based the 5% VAT rate on, or do your potential customers need to check with HMRC directly ???

Regards
Z

... and the answer came in the form of .... https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/39385088#Comment_39385088

Hi zeupater,

According to the HMRC site, if we were to sell a solar system only (without installing and commissioning them) then the standard 17.5% VAT rate would apply. (20% VAT from January 2011) – I.e. you go to a shop and purchase panels, you will be charged at the prevailing standard VAT rate.

The reason I mention the reduced rate of 5% is because not only are we supplying you with the panels but we are installing and commissioning them too, as a result the homeowner is generating electricity. Selling a kit on its own and selling a kit plus installing as well as commissioning them are two different cases and for this reason the VAT rates for both cases differ.

If the homeowner would like to buyout after a supplier such as HomeSun supplies, installs and commissions a system on their property, the 5% reduced VAT rate would apply. On the other hand there is no mention on the HMRC site if the 5% reduced rate will or will not change in the future.

Thanks

Krish

... to which I replied ... https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/39391924#Comment_39391924

Hi Krish

I understand what you are posting, and I understand the requirements which must be met in order to apply reduced rate VAT on solar pv installations ... what must be remembered is that at the time of installation & commissioning the customer IS NOT the homeowner, it IS the 'rent-a-roof' scheme operator who will take the installation onto their accounts as an asset.

If a homeowner makes the decision to purchase the existing asset from the scheme operator, there will not at that time be a contract to supply, install and commission as is required in order to apply the reduced rate. The contract of sale to supply, install and commission is between the installer and the scheme operator, it is likely that both would be part of the same group of companies with the transaction probably being classified as an intercompany sale at the time of installation. The operations side of the business is the customer, VAT will have been due at the point of sale.

At the time of transfer to the homeowner the system will have been pre-owned by the scheme operating company and will already have attracted the necessary VAT payments due at point of sale. The array will not be removed and refitted to the property as part of the asset transfer to the homeowner, therefore you are correct in your statement referenced above ... "Selling a kit on its own and selling a kit plus installing as well as commissioning them are two different cases and for this reason the VAT rates for both cases differ" ... as the kit will be sold as an existing used asset and further installation & commissioning is not required, therefore unless there is special dispensation by HMRC allowing VAT to be charged at the lower rate (currently 5%) the asset transfer should attract the full prevailing VAT rate.

Again, do you have information provided by HMRC to support the position that VAT will be allowed to be charged at the reduced rate for the transfer of an existing company capital asset ?

Regards

As can be seen, the above information provided by the RaR scheme operator's representative, posting on behalf of the company, would be clearly seen as being inaccurate, false or misleading, it would therefore be extremely interesting to see whether Homesun would now be in a position to reduce their 'buy out' costs to reflect what they would have been at the reduced VAT rate (5%) ... there would still be plenty of 'fat' in the price to allow this to happen.

Perhaps, considering the timescale to investigate what should have been a known factor over 12 months ago, we'll have this point considered more quickly, with the outcome being seen as being a positive one for any concerned 'customers', the alternative option would likely result in eventual court actions which would rely on evidence including that from posts on these threads which would likely result in an enforced price reduction anyway, as well as swallowing any costs incurred .....

Interesting climb down .... shame it took so long .... however, I would like to see some form of dated proof that the statement "It has been confirmed for quite some time now ....." is accurate from a customer's point of view as there seems to be little evidence that this is the case on these threads ....

HTH
Z

Cardew

Homesun's handling of this VAT issue seems par for this dreadful company - particularly Krish(who seems to have been promoted)

I suspect anyone who had a system installed on the understanding that VAT would be at 5%, would be able to insist that they bought the system at the quoted price( the Small Claims court would decide) or cancel the contract and make Homesun remove the system from roof. That latter action would be highly recommended for the poor souls who paid £500 and are paying £5 a month for 'maintenance'.

orrery

I've spoken to EDF this morning to chase my formal FIT agreement (I've already got the formal confirmation of qualification letter).

EDF admit that they are just completing processing the August applications. They are hoping to have mine (installed mid November) processed in time for the March reading date.

However, bearing in mind that they appear to be running 2 to 3 months late, I'm not hopeful of them processing the massive peak in applications in time for the March reading date.

So, if the first payment might be up to 90 days after the reading date, my first payment will be June at the earliest and more likely September!