Landlord deposit dispute - betterment?

Aengil

Hi all,

We've just moved out of a property we'd been renting for three years.

The landlord is attempting to withhold a significant part (nearly £400) of our deposit for gardening and carpet cleaning costs.

I'm disputing this on the grounds that the inventory clearly describes the state of the garden - overgrown, with weeds throughout - and the carpets - heavily stained, throughout - at the start of our tenancy and both were, if anything, in a better condition when we moved out (three years of fair wear and tear allowing).

The landlord did pay to have two of the carpets cleaned (in the main bedroom and the bathroom) shortly after we moved in, at our request. due to the fact that they actually stank, but they didn't have any of the others cleaned although we did ask (the other carpets were pretty filthy, but didn't actually stink). The carpet cleaners didn't manage to remove the stains on the two carpets they did clean, but did mostly remove the odour.

I've offered (without prejudice) £100 towards the costs purely as a gesture of goodwill, but they've got back to me since re-iterating the costs and asking me again what I'd offer towards the gardening and carpet cleaning. They've also sent photos of the garden, taken nearly seven weeks before we moved in (our tenancy started in June, the garden was left to grow wild during that seven week period, as the inventory description reflects).

It's my opinion that if they chose not to clean the carpets and keep the garden in a tidy condition before the tenancy, and the inventory descriptions clearly reflect that, then they can't expect me to pay to do so at the end of the tenancy. But is that right? My understanding is that a landlord can't claim for 'betterment' - does that only apply to replacing items, or can it apply to cleaning and gardening costs?

So I could use some advice. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

BitterAndTwisted

You are absolutely right but you have sent them the wrong signal by offering to pay them anything. Withdraw that offer right now and confirm in writing why you believe that they are not entitled to deduct a penny. Your position is quite clear and persuasive. You have made it very well in your post so just reiterate all that in YOUR LETTER TO THEM. No text messages, no emails

martindow

Is your deposit protected in one of the schemes?

Aengil

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

You are absolutely right but you have sent them the wrong signal by offering to pay them anything. Withdraw that offer right now and confirm in writing why you believe that they are not entitled to deduct a penny. Your position is quite clear and persuasive. You have made it very well in your post so just reiterate all that in YOUR LETTER TO THEM. No text messages, no emails

Thanks for that. The only reason I made the gesture of goodwill offer (I was clear that it was purely that and that we didn't accept any of the charges) is because the letting agent has been making dire warnings about how long the dispute process takes ("The dispute service will take a long time to sort out ...") and I could really do with getting as much of the deposit as possible back sooner rather than later.

Although it occurs to me that may well just be a tactic on their part to try and extort some money out of me. Is there a limit to how long these things can take?

Also, is there a legal reason to send things in writing rather than email? With email it's quicker and I can cc it to the other tenant (it was a joint tenancy), but obviously if there's a legal requirement to send this sort of thing in writing I'll do that. Thanks again.

martindow wrote: »

Is your deposit protected in one of the schemes?

Yes... although having said that, you just prompted me to check. We received a certificate of tenancy registration when we moved in, with a Tenancy UID code. I've just checked that on the website given (can't post the link but it's thedisputeservice.co.uk) and I get the message "Your agent is no longer a member of the Scheme and is making other arrangements for the protection of your deposit. Please contact your agent directly to establish your current position." The letting agents have never sent me anything else, so as it turns out it would appear that I actually don't know if it's protected or not.

sequence

They're telling you these things because they know there's no way they'll win a dispute. Their job is to protect the landlord and make him and themselves as much money as possible.

Don't offer money in future because it makes you look like you did damage something and are trying to minimize your losses. It's your money and you're not liable for these things.

Go the the deposit company and request your deposit back.

G_M

I agree with most of the advice above, but

The landlord did pay to have two of the carpets cleaned (in the main bedroom and the bathroom) shortly after we moved in, at our request. due to the fact that they actually stank, but they didn't have any of the others cleaned

given that the LL cleaned 2 carpets it would seem fair to expect you to leave those 2 carpets cleaned.
You do need to find out what happened to the deposit. If the LL/agent stopped using that scheme
a) you should have been informed - ask both the sceme AND the LL why you weren't and
b) the deposit should have been placed in another scheme - again ask the LL which

Writing is generally better than email. I'd write. If you use Word on your computer and then print the letter and post it, you can always cut/paste or attach it in an email for your co-tenant to see.

milliebear00001

It took about two months for me to get back my deposit when I went through the process recently.

You don't owe them anything at all. Ask them where they have put your deposit and start a claim for it back with whichever agency it's with. If it hasn't been lodged anywhere, then go to the Small Claims Court.

Aengil

Thanks for all the advice, it really is appreciated.

G_M wrote: »

I agree with most of the advice above, but
given that the LL cleaned 2 carpets it would seem fair to expect you to leave those 2 carpets cleaned.
You do need to find out what happened to the deposit. If the LL/agent stopped using that scheme
a) you should have been informed - ask both the sceme AND the LL why you weren't and
b) the deposit should have been placed in another scheme - again ask the LL which

Writing is generally better than email. I'd write. If you use Word on your computer and then print the letter and post it, you can always cut/paste or attach it in an email for your co-tenant to see.

Just on those carpets, the two carpets they did have cleaned are much as they were after they were cleaned. We did go over all the carpets with our own carpet cleaner before we left, but given how stained the carpets were when we moved in, they're naturally not perfect now either.

So my next step, then, is to write back to the letting agents, since I need to find out whether the deposit is in another scheme and if so which one. Should I say anything else at this point? Would it be worth asking for a full breakdown of the costs they're claiming? (in their original letter they just said '£240 for cleaning', and in a subsequent email they've referred to the carpets, but they haven't been specific).

milliebear00001 wrote: »

It took about two months for me to get back my deposit when I went through the process recently.

Thanks for that. I guess I shall push on then!

sharpee

Aengil wrote: »

you just prompted me to check. We received a certificate of tenancy registration when we moved in, with a Tenancy UID code. I've just checked that on the website given (can't post the link but it's thedisputeservice.co.uk) and I get the message "Your agent is no longer a member of the Scheme and is making other arrangements for the protection of your deposit. Please contact your agent directly to establish your current position." The letting agents have never sent me anything else, so as it turns out it would appear that I actually don't know if it's protected or not.

So is the Ops deposit still protected? It doesn't sound like it

G_M

If it's no longer protected in a scheme, and this goes to court, the judge will immediately be unimpressed by the LL's failure to protect, so his sympathies will be.......

tbs624

OP - check with the other 2 schemes (DPS and mydeposits) IIRC TDS booted out LAs who refused to sign up to ARLA or another body with a code of conduct.

Don't be put off with tales of " it will take for ever " if you dispute the proposed deductions. LA wants an easy life and the best result for the LL, on whose behalf he acts. Many LAs will tell Ts that they help both parties over the return of deposits but the reality is that they don't: they act *for* the LL.

Send the LA/LL a Letter Before Action, setting out your attenpts as resolve and asking them to return your deposit with 10 working days, after which time you will proceed to the County Court to seek recovery. State in the letter that you have evidence from each of the three schemes that you tenancy deposit is no longer registered.

Even if they wish to dispute a set amount they are obliged to return the undisputed remains to you promptly. ( You need to write confirming that you don't accept that amount as being in full and final settlement.)

A Court claim is usually relatively straightforward, so long as you have your paperwork in good order, with copy letters etc clearly numbered. You may find it helpful to peruse mydeposits LLs guide to fair wear and tear and ARLA's guidance