MSE News: Only one third of pupils understand the new tuition fees system

2sides2everystory

Taiko wrote: »

They would just have Paragraph 5(3)(f) of The Education (Student Support) Regulations used against them, and support terminated on that basis, so no loans would be provided at all.

Who is they Taiko? Everyone in the proposed solidarity movement?

You really are a bundle of laughs aren't you - do they let you loose on our kids?

Lokolo

gadgetmind wrote: »

Yes, sure, but tomorrow, or soon after.

She's wanting to study medicine, and it's by no means certain she'll get in, but if she does, it's a big up front investment. I've assumed she's going to earn enough to be paying back something as soon as she's earning, which seems reasonable.

The engineering peeps we employ will be doing the same.

TBH, if you're never going to pay it back, the whole country is on a big fat looser if you take the course. A degree should boost your earning potential into the stratosphere IMO.

This has been mentioned before but it's a complete fallacy. Teachers do not earn loads, researchers don't earn loads etc.etc.

University isn't there for the earnings, it's there for the education, just sometimes you earn a lot more depending on what you study and what career you go into, higher earnings come into that.

Assuming that your daughter is going to come out of university earning loads is a very big assumption. You don't know if she is going to complete the course, you don't know if she is going to end up being a doctor. Things change, people change.

Oldernotwiser

gadgetmind wrote: »

Yes, sure, but tomorrow, or soon after.

She's wanting to study medicine, and it's by no means certain she'll get in, but if she does, it's a big up front investment. I've assumed she's going to earn enough to be paying back something as soon as she's earning, which seems reasonable.

As you've obviously researched the situation, I fail to see how you can genuinely believe this to be the case.

What worries me is that well informed people like you can make this sort of statement and totally mislead the students (and their parents) who are less well informed.

wozearly

gadgetmind wrote: »

Yes, sure, but tomorrow, or soon after.

She's wanting to study medicine, and it's by no means certain she'll get in, but if she does, it's a big up front investment. I've assumed she's going to earn enough to be paying back something as soon as she's earning, which seems reasonable.

The engineering peeps we employ will be doing the same.

TBH, if you're never going to pay it back, the whole country is on a big fat looser if you take the course. A degree should boost your earning potential into the stratosphere IMO.

If she's going into medicine, that really rebalances factors!

However, medical and engineering grads are a comparative rarity and most students won't earn similar levels. As Lokolo says, the amount the average grad earns varies a lot. PWC's analysis on this suggested the average grad earns about £160,000 (pre tax) more over a lifetime than a non-graduate, which over a 48-ish year career is only about 3.3k per year in salary terms.

In today's salaries, that pegs them at round about the £30k mark - which is about right, IMO, given that not every graduate will get a 'graduate' level job for their entire career, nor is every graduate career well-paid.

The world for graduates has changed a lot since, say, 40 years ago. There are a lot more of us - we can't all earn massive salaries.

So in your daughter's case, assuming all goes to plan (fingers crossed) then yes, the new system is going to be horrible. But the 'average' grad will experience something very different if you focus on the repayments and not the overall level of debt. It'll be more expensive, but not necessarily horrendously so.

Oldernotwiser - in a sense, you're both right. If you assume a specific student will pay the loan back in full, then it is a massive upfront investment. But for the significant number that won't, this isn't true.

2sides2everystory

Oldernotwiser, would you mind reminding us of your interest in these matters? It has got to the stage that I can immediately guess correctly who has been the first to leave Thanks for certain types of comment in the growing forest of these threads about Student Tuition Fees.

My own interest is as a 1970s graduate with full state funding/support with a son due to start at a good university in 2012 and daughter in 2013.

Taiko

They, in this case, would be the SLC, who in turn act on behalf of the Secretary of State.

Lokolo

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Oldernotwiser, would you mind reminding us of your interest in these matters? It has got to the stage that I can immediately guess correctly who has been the first to leave Thanks for certain types of comment in the growing forest of these threads about Student Tuition Fees.

My own interest is as a 1970s graduate with full state funding/support with a son due to start at a good university in 2012 and daughter in 2013.

I usually thank ONW most of the time because she's invaluable to these forums with her advice and guidance and is very nice person.

You on the other hand, do not help out, only come here to whine and vent. So you don't get my thanks You will see that I don't neccessarily agree with setmefree either, but I still thank her because she is helpful on these forums.

And just because you graduated in 1970s for free doesn't mean your son and daughter should... things change.

Oldernotwiser

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Who is they Taiko? Everyone in the proposed solidarity movement?

You really are a bundle of laughs aren't you - do they let you loose on our kids?

People who post questions about student finance on here get thoughtful and accurate answers from Taiko, who works in this field. We owe him our gratitude for giving his time so freely.

2sides2everystory

I think you are mixing up they and them, Taiko. I asked who would have the law you quoted used against them. You've just reminded us of the quango that might be staffed well enough to know how to enforce it - or not - I'm sure SLC will be swamped as usual.

I just noticed you asked about the suggestion of illegitimacy of the whole scheme - I was referring to the judicial review ordered by the High Court the other day after a couple of teenagers complained.

Oldernotwiser

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Oldernotwiser, would you mind reminding us of your interest in these matters? It has got to the stage that I can immediately guess correctly who has been the first to leave Thanks for certain types of comment in the growing forest of these threads about Student Tuition Fees.

My own interest is as a 1970s graduate with full state funding/support with a son due to start at a good university in 2012 and daughter in 2013.

Unlike you, I have no personal axe to grind.

As a retired Careers Adviser, I'm concerned that young people from less affluent backgrounds aren't put off getting a university education by ill informed information that's inappropriate to their situation.

As you're so well informed, I'm surprised that your son has deferred his university place until 2012 - as he must have done for you to know that he definitely has a place at a good university in 2012.