Esc A19 and Tax Codes

nutty_nat

Hi
Please can someone give me some advice.

I pay my tax by the PAYE tax code method. For my main job I earn £45,000 and my tax code is 759L, my problems started with the Inland Revenue in June 09 I contacted them to say I was starting two extra part time jobs I was assured that they would pass on the correct tax codes and thought no more of it. In April 2010 I was asked to complete a tax return which I did in the April and was horrified to find out I owed £3446.00 for underpayment of tax. I contacted IR straight away and found out my tax codes for the part time jobs were taxed at BR and not DO. At the same time I told the IR i could not afford to pay the tax and they told me to call back in November, I immediately set up a direct debit for £50.00 a month as this is all I could afford. I also rang the wages departments of my two part time jobs and asked them to update my tax codes but they said they could only do this when the IR had told them.
One of my tax codes for my part time jobs got updated in April 2010 but the other job remained at BR. I kept contacting IR and was assured all the time that the situation was in hand and it would be updated.
In October 2010 I contacted IR about my payment situation and it took me five months of calls and a letter where I begged for somebody to sort this situation out, before I finally managed to get a payment plan sorted out.
In January 2011 I started two more part time jobs and was assured the tax codes would be DO but no they were taxed at BR. On 28th March 2011 I received my coding notices for the next year and was horrified to see all the part time jobs had been set at BR, even the one part time job that had been DO had been put back to BR:mad:. Back on the telephone again and for the first time I managed to get all the part time jobs tax codes set at DO I think it may have something to do with sobbing down the phone to them with frustration. I filled in my tax return in May 2011 and my total debt with them is now £6661.20. I have kept them up to date with all my changes and wrote to them on the 31st May 2011 asking if they could possible write of some of the debt. I called them yesterday for an update but was told it will be six weeks before the customer operations dept will look at this. Please does anybody have any advice for me, do you think it could be eligible for a ESC A19? I don't no what else to do I am at my witts end with worry with this:(

chrismac1

Your experiences are sadly all too common. Finding competent people in HMRC who are willing to help and not being disciplined by the idiot managment is like finding a 24 carat diamond - very rare! I know such people but no way would I post the details as this would kill the goose which lays the eggs.

I don't think an Esc A19 claim is possible because of the timeline. The first time HMRC were in a position to correctly assess your 09-10 tax was around this time last year, after all P14s - due 31 May - had been received. This is firmly in the 10-11 tax year, so it sounds like they've contacted you in good time.

It may however be worth writing a formal COMPLAINT - in capitals because that is how the word should be in the header of your letter. Make it clear that:

1. You have made every effort to get them to put things right. Whenever I call them I get a name, location, time and date and I advise clients to do so to. Only last week this helped one client who HMRC had accused of late VAT registration - my client had all these detals for the call he made to HMRC to register in October last year, so their claim that he registered late has to go into the bin.

2. They have failed to take due care with your codings. Spell out each and every instance where a wrong code has been issued despite your efforts.

3. You have suffered as a result - and ideally quantify this as best you can. This is where things get tricky - so far you have not really suffered a financial loss, this will only arise if HMRC were to put this matter into the hands of bailiffs.

However, what you are outlining in the three points above is that on the face of it you have a case for a negligence claim should HMRC pursue this matter aggressively. This they will hopefully see as a warning shot across the bows, and at least continue to accept your repayment terms as they stand until the debt is cleared.

nutty_nat

chrismac1 wrote: »

Your experiences are sadly all too common. Finding competent people in HMRC who are willing to help and not being disciplined by the idiot managment is like finding a 24 carat diamond - very rare! I know such people but no way would I post the details as this would kill the goose which lays the eggs.

I don't think an Esc A19 claim is possible because of the timeline. The first time HMRC were in a position to correctly assess your 09-10 tax was around this time last year, after all P14s - due 31 May - had been received. This is firmly in the 10-11 tax year, so it sounds like they've contacted you in good time.

It may however be worth writing a formal COMPLAINT - in capitals because that is how the word should be in the header of your letter. Make it clear that:

1. You have made every effort to get them to put things right. Whenever I call them I get a name, location, time and date and I advise clients to do so to. Only last week this helped one client who HMRC had accused of late VAT registration - my client had all these detals for the call he made to HMRC to register in October last year, so their claim that he registered late has to go into the bin.

2. They have failed to take due care with your codings. Spell out each and every instance where a wrong code has been issued despite your efforts.

3. You have suffered as a result - and ideally quantify this as best you can. This is where things get tricky - so far you have not really suffered a financial loss, this will only arise if HMRC were to put this matter into the hands of bailiffs.

However, what you are outlining in the three points above is that on the face of it you have a case for a negligence claim should HMRC pursue this matter aggressively. This they will hopefully see as a warning shot across the bows, and at least continue to accept your repayment terms as they stand until the debt is cleared.

Thank you for your reply any advice is greatly received, I will send another complaint letter.;)

BoGoF

In answer to your specific question, I wouldn't hold out much hope of getting any tax written off although you do have cause for complaint.

My reasons for saying this are that it is clear that you were aware that you weren't paying enough tax and that D0 code should have been in operation. This being the case then, in my opinion, you would fail the 'reasonable belief' test of ESCA19.

It could also be argued that it would have been prudent of you to put the tax you were aware you were underpaid to one side until the inevitable happened. For example when the source that was coded D0 reverted back to BR then what did you do with the large refund this would have generated?

tillycat123

I thought second jobs should have a BR coding if the main job has all of the tax allowance.

Mine does anyway and I never owe.

BoGoF

tillycat123 wrote: »

I thought second jobs should have a BR coding if the main job has all of the tax allowance.

Mine does anyway and I never owe.

BR only collects tax at basic rate - 20%. For those who are lucky enough to pay tax at the higher rate of 40% this would not be enough so code D0 collects 40%.

nutty_nat

BoGoF wrote: »

In answer to your specific question, I wouldn't hold out much hope of getting any tax written off although you do have cause for complaint.

My reasons for saying this are that it is clear that you were aware that you weren't paying enough tax and that D0 code should have been in operation. This being the case then, in my opinion, you would fail the 'reasonable belief' test of ESCA19.

It could also be argued that it would have been prudent of you to put the tax you were aware you were underpaid to one side until the inevitable happened. For example when the source that was coded D0 reverted back to BR then what did you do with the large refund this would have generated?

Thank you for your reply, we have never received any refund from IR. Also for the tax year 09-10 we didn't no the coding should have been DO we were horrified when we received our tax bill. Then it took us 12 months to get them to update the tax codes.

BoGoF

You may not have got a refund from HMRC but when the code was changed from D0 you would have either received a refund through your wages or paid substantially less tax that month, your take home pay must have been much higher that month?

nutty_nat

BoGoF wrote: »

You may not have got a refund from HMRC but when the code was changed from D0 you would have either received a refund through your wages or paid substantially less tax that month, your take home pay must have been much higher that month?

This one was a part time job i do every other week which i earn £180.00 a month on top, there was no refund in my wages. I managed to get it changed back within the month.

dori2o

Before anything else we need to know a few of the facts.

1, when you rang and told HMRC of the new jobs, did you give the advisor on the phone the information to set up the record there and then, or were you told by the advisor, correctly I might add, that your new employer would send the informtion to HMRC via a P46, and a code would be issued after that date.

It's not sufficient to say, I phoned HMRC and told them I had a second job. They kneed to know who the employer is (by confirming the employers PAYE Reference), when you started there and your employee/clock/staff number in order to issue the code to the right place and by the correct method.

2, following these phone calls you made in order to change your code from BR to D0, did you receive a coding notice stating the code had been updated. It may actually be that HMRC did issue the codes required but that they were not operated by the employer.

You need to get a clear timeline in place, i.e. when was the information sent to/received by HMRC regarding the new employment, and when did they act upon it. When did HMRC issue the tax codes (if they were issued at all), to whom were the codes issued and what codes were they.

Only then can we say who maybe to blame.

You can get all of this information via the helpline.

nutty_nat

dori2o wrote: »

Before anything else we need to know a few of the facts.

1, when you rang and told HMRC of the new jobs, did you give the advisor on the phone the information to set up the record there and then, or were you told by the advisor, correctly I might add, that your new employer would send the informtion to HMRC via a P46, and a code would be issued after that date.

It's not sufficient to say, I phoned HMRC and told them I had a second job. They kneed to know who the employer is (by confirming the employers PAYE Reference), when you started there and your employee/clock/staff number in order to issue the code to the right place and by the correct method.

2, following these phone calls you made in order to change your code from BR to D0, did you receive a coding notice stating the code had been updated. It may actually be that HMRC did issue the codes required but that they were not operated by the employer.

You need to get a clear timeline in place, i.e. when was the information sent to/received by HMRC regarding the new employment, and when did they act upon it. When did HMRC issue the tax codes (if they were issued at all), to whom were the codes issued and what codes were they.

Only then can we say who maybe to blame.

You can get all of this information via the helpline.

Thank you for your advice, yes I have always filled in a P46 for every job and have always given the tax office all details. For the new part time jobs we never received coding notices until March 10 and then it was March 11, before we recieved more coding notices. I started the part jobs in June 09 and it took until April 11 to get the DO code put in place. In the last two years i must have made thirty calls to the IR.