Need advice about commercial waste disposal

bibi_neko

This post will be long winded but I still hope there is still light at the end of the tunnel.

My parents own a small take away so they are required to dispose of commercial waste appropriately.

The council had a scheme which meant they had to buy bags and stickers in order for their waste to be collected. It was a small amount like couple of bags a week tops. But they were required to purchase these orange bags and stickers monthly and they over ordered. The council will send them a bill every month which they would then pay and get the delivery. After a while they realised they over ordered and called up the council to stop delivery of the bags and stickers. The council continued to send bills and my parents continued to pay and they received a few more deliveries until they stopped paying and the deliveries stopped.

Then the scheme stopped, but my parents did not know of this. So they continued to use the orange bags and stickers.

This was three years ago. Every now and again someone will come to the shop and ask about their waste disposal habits and so on. They are then told my parents still have the orange bags from the council which are already pre paid with the terms and conditions that they will be collected so why should they sign up for another. The people accept that and leave.

Today they are visited again from another couple of people who say they are working in partnership with the council and ask about their waste disposal habits as there will be a scheme starting on 1st August about waste disposal. My parents again stated that they still have the orange bags and stickers and as they've reduced disposable waste to almost one bag a week as the rest are recyclable and put into recycle bins nearby.

They state as the orange bags are not in use as the scheme has ended 3 years ago, they will not be valid and my parents will need to show proof of current waste disposal. We explained that as they are already paid for we expect the council to do what was paid, now that the council has stopped the scheme and my parents still have a lot of left over bags and stickers (about over 100 bags and stickers), my parents have essentially been left out of pocket as a) no one has notified them that the scheme has stopped, b) they have not been reimbursed for the purchases they have made c) they explained to every person "working for the council" about their situation and they have accepted it.

So now after three years new visitors (who actually work for the original company who set up the orange bag scheme) has just said the orange bags are invalid and we've left it too long to make a complaint and they've wasted their money by not stopping the orders early enough and not contacting the council via a letter to cancel the orders, when my parent's didn't know they had to cancel by letter, as they did try calling to cancel orders. Their new scheme is a prepaid bag system whereby my parents will buy red disposal bags and use as they like while they will collect three times a day. As oppose to the orange bag system where my parents bought the bags and they were collected.....oh wait same right? see the visitors didn't seem to agree.

My question is, as the scheme was three years ago, would I still be able to make a complaint to my council and ask for a reimbursement of all the bags and stickers that was bought? which is now useless.

I know it's a bit of a long shot and thanks for reading if you've made it this far. I just wanted to know what can I do now, my parents are rather upset as they feel they have been left out of pocket when they just own a small business and feel they are being done over by the council. They have considered just buying a roll of bags just so they can get them off their backs.

Horace

I think they have left it too late to make a complaint to the council. It always pays to cancel things in writing because any tom !!!!!! or harry can ring up and try to cancel something out of sheer mischief - there are some vindictive people out there who will do that.

If they have commercial waste then they will need a licence to dispose of it and need to sign a contract with a company so that it is collected. correctly. If you have waste that is recyclable then consider having your own recycling bin as opposed to putting commercial waste in a local bin. I am not saying that it will happen but if commercial stuff is found in a local bin then it could be traced back to the shop and they could be prosecuted for fly tipping.

Why should the council reimburse your parents? If the scheme ended it ended. Your parents must have known because the council would have said (I am guessing that maybe English isnt your parents' first language?). If they are running a food premises then they have to make arrangements for the waste to be disposed of whether that be paying for council bins or paying someone like biffa or veolia.

Maybe your parents need to speak to the council maybe with you present so that you can understand and explain to them what they need to do.

Forget about the orange bags and stickers - dump them.

Savvy_Sue

I don't think you have any chance, personally. Let me see if I can summarise ...

1. Your parents continued to pay for these bags, even though they didn't need any more - OK so they phoned and said 'no more bags please', but mistakes happen, and your parents made one by not phoning again and saying "we said no more bags, please can we return the last batch and btw we'd like a credit note please".
2. You say "the scheme stopped", but presumably that's the scheme for the supply of bags rather than the scheme for collection of bags. We don't have 3 years worth of uncollected rubbish outside a takeaway somewhere, do we? So your parents pre-paid for a service which they have continued to receive.
3. There has been legislation over the last few years which DOES require businesses to 'prove' that they are disposing of their waste correctly. Your parents think the terms and conditions for these bags still apply: the council disagree. I don't think you want to find out in court who's right.
4. Your parents are using local recycling bins to dispose of some of their waste: I do hope these are not residential bins because businesses are not supposed to use them (because of 3 above, and because council tax payers shouldn't be paying for disposal of business waste).
5. Your parents did not put anything in writing. Generally that's what businesses do. The council can probably produce a letter describing any changes - is it possible your parents put it to one side thinking "that doesn't apply to us?"

I may be wrong, others may give more positive advice. And of course, your parents do not have to use THIS service, they are at liberty to chose any waste disposal service in your area, as long as they can prove that their waste is being correctly disposed of!

jexygirl

Whilst I understand your frustration - what with the old system being practically the new one, I do agree with the above posts.
I think they need to cut their losses to a degree.
Over ordering the bags was very bad buisness practice, and worse still if they have bags 3 years after a system stopped... I understand that they paid for them, however, they should have bought only what they needed weekly or even monthly at most and written to cancel any contract. The fact they over ordered is not the councils problem.
As sue says, it is illegal for them to use local recycling bins, no matter how close - (however, it isnt illegal for people to use recycling bins that I pay for on my premises.. dont get me started!.) so they need to look into costing recycling bins as well as new waste management contracts.
As a food outlet, your oil supplier will no doubt be doing a free collection of used oil, and provide containers to do so.
Our local council provide a commercial waste disposal /recycling service for a very good rate, if you are not that lucky, then private operators are your option, but check terms and conditions with a VERY fine tooth /nit comb.
Good luck
Jex

bazzer100

hi, i would make a complaint to the local Government ombudsman in your situation and see if you can get them to rule in your favour. I agree with the above posts, but it might be worth a try to say that you paid for these goods - it's not your fault the syste stopped.

jexygirl

To be fair bazza, if it was 6 months after it stopped, even I could possibly be persuaded that 6 months of prepay bags (48 bags at 2 a week) at the absolute max was perhaps acceptable for cashflow reasons and perhaps a drop in trade... but 4 YEARS worth?!?!
2 bags a week, 104 a year, 312 in 3 years SINCE IT STOPPED regardless of what was purchased and the notice that would definately have been given that it was stopping as well as having over another years worth of bags left????
Whilst I do see that the bags were pre - paid for, I think anyone would question 4 years worth of prepay, I would even suggest checking the terms and conditions, because these contracts are often re quoted or re costed yearly. Whilst I see what the OP is saying - service was paid for - it is likely that they have been lucky it has been honoured thus far as the T&C probably have some sort of years notice clause!

I suppose it could be said that it would work in your favour potentially that they continued to collect despite it being discontinued (i assume they have, otherwise 3 years worth of rubbish sitting out back would be a whole different post!) therefore they are accepting responsibility for collecting thus far...

Difficult one, and where as I would normally fight to the death over this sort of thing, pre paying for a service, even for me 4 years is way too much... - there are too many things (such as ridiculous over ordering) that would also go against them.

jex

Savvy_Sue

bazzer100 wrote: »

hi, i would make a complaint to the local Government ombudsman in your situation and see if you can get them to rule in your favour. I agree with the above posts, but it might be worth a try to say that you paid for these goods - it's not your fault the syste stopped.

As jexy said, it's not the OP's parents fault that the service stopped, but whose fault is that they'd paid for 4 years worth of bags more than they needed? I don't think we can blame the council for that ...

Also note that you CANNOT complain to any ombudsman without first having exhausted the organisation's complaints system. So that means writing first to the council, then escalating the complaint, and so on.

How much are we talking about here?

bibi_neko

Thanks for everyone's replies, I knew it was a long shot and I honestly wouldn't know where to take it from even if I had a chance.

For those who are wondering about the bags, the rubbish was still being collected as usual so that probably confused them further. I don't know how much was agreed for the service.

They have decided to just purchase the basic amount of 50 bags/1 roll which would equate to around £60 incl VAT. That could last them for about under a year.

Does that sound reasonable? considering they have on average about 1 bag a week, no more than 2 bags a week if they do a large intake of stock now and again. ofc this time i'll tell them not to buy anymore until all bags have been used.

Thanks for all the comments.

paulwf

bibi_neko wrote: »

They have decided to just purchase the basic amount of 50 bags/1 roll which would equate to around £60 incl VAT. That could last them for about under a year.

Does that sound reasonable?

Reasonable??? They are giving it away at that price! I wish I could pay £1 a bag and £50 ex VAT a year for waste collection.

I pay about double that a month, and when you add on all the extras like waste transfer notes it increases even more. Plus I can't really tally the number of lifts against the invoice and they try and sneak up the price and introduce random levies. I would love to pre-pay for bags so you know exactly what you are getting.

Savvy_Sue

paulwf wrote: »

Reasonable??? They are giving it away at that price! I wish I could pay £1 a bag and £50 ex VAT a year for waste collection.

I agree, we're on a pre-pay bag system, and we're certainly paying more than that!

Chester11

While planning for a commercial premises it is essential to consider all the facilities, especially waste disposal should be done properly.While constructing malls and other commercial buildings see that all the possible issues are addressed.