Debate House Prices


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43000 people forced to move because of benefit cap

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Comments

  • FTBFun
    FTBFun Posts: 4,273 Forumite
    edited 24 June 2011 at 2:45PM
    Percy1983 wrote: »
    So providing a service is handing over a key and saying 'you can live here' and from that service landlords should make massive profits?

    The level of service is irrelevant, nor is their level of profit. You pay rent, you live in the property. There's no need to get chippy over how much they make - do you complain when you're buying your shopping in Tesco about their massive profits?
    In that case when I buy a house I want a massive tax reduction as I supply a massive service too myself everyday by letting me live in my house.

    You're utilising an asset which you own. How is that the same?
    My point is the profit from the landlord business is you get a house at the end of it and that should be your payment.

    eg, I buy a house and rent it out with a 20 year mortgage, then for the following 20 years my balance sheet shows nil profit, but I then have an asset worth £120k (of course whatever it worth in 20 years), so I have gained £6000 a year which is more than a healthy profit for not much work.

    What on earth are you on about? For a start, landlords do (should, anyway) pay tax on their rental profits, so its not like they're getting the full amount of income from the property. If there's any capital gain they'll likely pay capital gains tax also, even if its purely down to inflation.

    I'm really not sure what you are arguing - that rents should be set at a break-even level only? That doesn't make any sense in a free-market economy (mixed economy really, but free in this regard).
  • Cleaver
    Cleaver Posts: 6,989 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Percy1983 wrote: »
    My point a business sells a service or item which they can keep, with a tennant pays the mortgage and the lanlord keeps the product.

    How would you feel is a supermarket charged you for your shopping but then kept everything you just bought?

    Are you being purposefully stupid? There are hundreds of businesses where you pay money and don't get to own a product but do get the use of that product for a certain amount of time. Renting a car, staying in a hotel, going to see a film at a cinema, going to a therapist, renting a holiday villa, flying on a plane, travelling by taxi, renting a tuxedo... I could go on and on and on. In all of these business models you, as the consumer, chooses to rent the product for a certain period because you can't buy, or don't want to buy, the product on a full time basis. I don't want to make a film every time I want to watch one, I don't want to own a car with a driver in every city I go to so I use a taxi, I don't own a house in New York so I rent a hotel when I visit. You get the point.

    Are you ethically against all of these businesses? Would you only allow businesses that give you an actual product in your hand?
  • ILW
    ILW Posts: 18,333 Forumite
    Percy does see to be getting his knickers in a twist over this one.

    And I am no great supporter of BTL either.
  • Cleaver
    Cleaver Posts: 6,989 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Percy1983 wrote: »
    Said entreprenuer has to work, landlords can sit back and just send a bill every month.

    Define 'work'. If I take out a loan for £50k, invest it in a share, sell it three weeks later for £100k have I 'worked'? I borrow £20k and invest in in a business down the road which doubles my money in a year. I had nothing to do with running the business. Is this 'work'? I borrow £5k to buy a computer and, due to my genius, write a simple program that makes me £1k a month without any work. Is this 'work'?

    You can't tax businesses based on how much work you percieve someone has put in to it. That's dumb.
  • chewmylegoff
    chewmylegoff Posts: 11,466 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Percy1983 wrote: »
    So providing a service is handing over a key and saying 'you can live here' and from that service landlords should make massive profits?

    In that case when I buy a house I want a massive tax reduction as I supply a massive service too myself everyday by letting me live in my house.

    My point is the profit from the landlord business is you get a house at the end of it and that should be your payment.

    eg, I buy a house and rent it out with a 20 year mortgage, then for the following 20 years my balance sheet shows nil profit, but I then have an asset worth £120k (of course whatever it worth in 20 years), so I have gained £6000 a year which is more than a healthy profit for not much work.

    presumably anything which rents anything to you will be similarly forced to operate on a "not for profit" basis. hotels for instance - they should be more than happy to get a building out of running their business, so they should never make a profit. car hire companies - the same, no profits there please. the cinema only lets you watch the film once and then keeps the film for itself, so no profits there.

    this excellent idea will not only result in costs being reduced, it should also pretty much halve our GDP and result in the loss of about 10 million jobs. good work percy, give yourself some snaps.

    percy for business tzar.
  • ILW
    ILW Posts: 18,333 Forumite
    Under Percys scheme, if you commuted every day, by the end of the year you would own around 400 buses. think my neighbours may get a little upset over parking issues though.
  • Percy1983
    Percy1983 Posts: 5,244 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    I seem to have many replies so I will just try to summarise, what I mean and my reasons for it.

    Yes it should be applied to landlords only as a cap, extra tax etc.

    Why should it only apply to landlords?

    Because the whole business is immoral and is a way of purely helping the 'haves' take even more off the 'have nots'. I do believe half of the social problems in this country are down to housing, many don't give a poo about the house they live in or the community around them, many don't even try anymore as working doesn't mean you will be able to have your own home.

    In its the only business I know where every stock purchase denies a family there own home, how can people honestly say that is right?
    Have my first business premises (+4th business) 01/11/2017
    Quit day job to run 3 businesses 08/02/2017
    Started third business 25/06/2016
    Son born 13/09/2015
    Started a second business 03/08/2013
    Officially the owner of my own business since 13/01/2012
  • diable
    diable Posts: 5,258 Forumite
    Survival of the fittest, also I charge cheap rent compared to the market in my area as I cut out the middleman, The Inland Revenue so that my tenants benefit.

    Maybe more landlords should do the same.......
  • Cleaver
    Cleaver Posts: 6,989 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Percy1983 wrote: »
    I seem to have many replies so I will just try to summarise, what I mean and my reasons for it.

    Yes it should be applied to landlords only as a cap, extra tax etc.

    Why should it only apply to landlords?

    Because the whole business is immoral

    I'm sure we all have businesses that we don't like or don't use for ethical or moral reasons, or purely down to the fact that we don't like their business practices and they way they treat their customers. My list includes:

    BAE Systems (okay, I'm not going to buy a plane, but they offered me a job once and I wouldn't work there)
    Tesco
    Barclays
    ASDA
    A landlord I had a few years ago
    Abbey

    And probably a few more I can't remember now. I don't use these businesses, but I don't think they should be taxed more, or be subject to different rules to other businesses. Why should they? I just don't use them.
    Percy1983 wrote: »
    In its the only business I know where every stock purchase denies a family there own home, how can people honestly say that is right?

    When a landlord purchases a house it doesn't deny a family their own home, a landlord buying houses alongside homeowners is just one factor in a complex market. And I'm one person that thinks it's 'right' that we allow people to buy houses and then rent them out. I think I'm probably with most people in this country who have no real objection to houses being rented out, it's just a fact of life. None of us like paying through the nose for services like housing, electricy, gas, petrol etc. but what other system do you want? When I was at university I wanted to rent a house, and did so. That seems a fine arrangement to me.

    It seems that your plan is to not allow landlords to make a profit until mortgages on a rental property are paid off. I can't see what this would do aside from make the rent on rental properties go through the roof?
  • diable
    diable Posts: 5,258 Forumite
    Percy what is the problem here, if I have enough money and can afford 3 houses then why shouldn't I be allowed to buy them the same as if I want 3 cars, 4 LCD TV's, 5 bikes, 3 holidays a year, to spend every night in the pub in trainers and a tracksuit bottoms smoking 40 B&H and complaining about all the fcuking foreigners getting all the council houses............

    We live in a Capitalist region, if you don't like it then move to somewhere that suits your ideals.......
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