esa question as regards mental health>

justaquestion

Hi,

I have been on IB for a long time as I suffer from depression anxiety and social phobia as well as other physical problems. I have seen 3 psychiatrists 2 psychologists and 2 family counsellors years ago but the help which they kindly give me only seemed to have a short term benefit so much so that for last 12 years I just take my medication and try to avoid all situations that I find very stressful being with people etc. My gp is very supportive.

My question is will this count against me that I don't have ongoing professionals seeing me when I go for my esa migration in the future?

thanks for your advice.
Justin

Muttleythefrog

Interesting. Yes, many who suffer mental illness will end up in similar circumstance... effectively giving up with NHS help or exhausting it.. and therefore trying to create some stability without such help for themselves. The result is at face value from a healthcare point of view it might seem little is wrong. This is not the case of course.

ESA generally speaking might actually in terms of proof be a simpler issue for someone like you than say DLA (which maybe you claim or have claimed) since for ESA normally you'll get medical assessment and therefore medical evidence (albeit it often dubious but challengeable later in appeal) will be available to your claim. DLA on the other hand the burden of evidence sits absolutely on your shoulders.

During migration I understand they'll look at existing evidence from IB claim and that probably will have significant impact on this one off event. The lack of ongoing professional support won't help but it should have limited impact if any. If you face medical or if requested to complete ESA50 form it might be worth highlighting your historical treatment and that any benefits of such were insignificant. The fact you've been on medication for so long shows you're getting treatment. Having a supportive GP could be helpful if things were to ever go wrong (i.e. appeal needed against bad decision) - they typically don't seem to contact GP for ESA WCA since they can rely on the politically motivated incompetent ATOS HCPs..lol... to be blunt.

My advice... don't worry. Minor issue I'd say... and in migration process possibly of no issue.

alexandra_cmpbll

Hi, I am in a similar situation. I have been claiming esa at the basic rate since April 11. I was sent for an atos medical. None of the questions that were asked were pertinent to my mental health problems. They were all about physical disabilities. The atos person was not very good at speaking english, I had difficulty understanding him, and had to ask at least ten times for him to repeat his questions. He was abrupt and rude at times, becoming annoyed when I could not remember exact dates, which upset me to be spoken to and treated like that. The result of the medical...... fit for work. If I was fit for work I would be at work, my own gp and the occupational health doctor from work have both said I am unfit at the moment. I am awaiting nhs counselling. My 65 per week esa has been stopped until I het an appeal letter in. My gp is writing me a letter of support, at a cost of twenty pounds. I have no money coming in at all , apart from 20 per week child benefit and 59 pounds per week child tax credit. I have been unable to get a decent sleep since they have said i am fit for work. They are not recognising my depression and anxiety as an illness. I feel like a fraud. Mean while i cant cope financially, i am trying to be a mother to my children. Is it worth going on . It seems the government dont care if you are struggling with depressive illness and are only interested in punishing me for being ill, and adding to my misery by putting me under this unbearable pressure.

CountryGuy

What physical questions did they ask you?

skintandscared_2

My OH went for an assessment for national insurance contributions when he was unable to work. It was the same story - all the questions he was asked related to his physical abilities (he has bipolar disorder). I asked for a copy of the questions which should be asked to assess mental health conditions and that lists the "points" awarded for each question. I wrote a long letter and scored him based on their assessment questions. Not surprisingly, he then had more than three times the points necessary to qualify.

I had an immediate response to my letter acknowledging that my OH was entitled to the contributions and they then started.

I hate to say it, but I think the "powers that be" rely on the fact that people with mental health conditions will not have the determination to appeal their decision or be too confused to know where to start. I have been absolutely disgusted at the so-called "care" my OH has received from GPs and therapists.

I will try and find the letter I wrote to get the list of questions.

Muttleythefrog

alexandra_cmpbll wrote: »

Hi, I am in a similar situation. I have been claiming esa at the basic rate since April 11. I was sent for an atos medical. None of the questions that were asked were pertinent to my mental health problems. They were all about physical disabilities. The atos person was not very good at speaking english, I had difficulty understanding him, and had to ask at least ten times for him to repeat his questions. He was abrupt and rude at times, becoming annoyed when I could not remember exact dates, which upset me to be spoken to and treated like that. The result of the medical...... fit for work. If I was fit for work I would be at work, my own gp and the occupational health doctor from work have both said I am unfit at the moment. I am awaiting nhs counselling. My 65 per week esa has been stopped until I het an appeal letter in. My gp is writing me a letter of support, at a cost of twenty pounds. I have no money coming in at all , apart from 20 per week child benefit and 59 pounds per week child tax credit. I have been unable to get a decent sleep since they have said i am fit for work. They are not recognising my depression and anxiety as an illness. I feel like a fraud. Mean while i cant cope financially, i am trying to be a mother to my children. Is it worth going on . It seems the government dont care if you are struggling with depressive illness and are only interested in punishing me for being ill, and adding to my misery by putting me under this unbearable pressure.

Ouch. You should be able to get assessment rate while you wait for appeal tribunal.. which is likely many months away.. provided you have the cover of sickness note.. which doesn't sound like it'll be a problem for you to get. That's the good news.

The bad news is this sounds like the HCP may not have read your ESA50 in advance of seeing you or that political influences were at work. If you've climed no physical problems then they shouldn't be wasting their time asking about such. Perhaps they were incredibly amateur in approach asking questions as they went through the physical descriptor first half of their software program.

If it is any consolation... aggression, nastiness, hard to understand isn't uncommon. And bad experience at these medicals with outrageous results is common. The process itself and the horrors such as you've experienced inevitably make your health outlook worse... the very irony of a system allegedly to help people back to work makes many much less likely to do so for very real medical reasons.

The good news is appeal tribunals are neutral and more likely 'of this world'. If you feel you need legal support then seek that now... CAB resources etc are limited and it can take time to get appointment. Ask the DWP to send you a statement of reasons for their decision and their evidence used (including the ATOS medical report). The medical report will anger you.. prepare for that.. it'll be laced with inaccuracy and downright falsity I would expect in this case. Make sure you don't run out of time given to make you intent to appeal known to DWP. Any medical evidence you can get to support your case would be helpful... anything that shows you have thse medical conditions, are getting or seeking treatment. The GP letter of support is a good idea... but it would be especially helpful if it refers to the specific descriptors (scoring criteria) that you think apply to you or similar information... remember him saying you are not fit for work is not really that helpful for WCA.

I think there'll be a good chance you could overturn this decision. Many do with similar conditions. Make sure if you do appeal that you attend thew tribunal in person - hard though this experience may be it will statistically speaking advance your case markedly.

If everything goes wrong in appeal... you'll still have been getting the assessment rate until then. And given the delays being experienced I think there's every chance that you could have used up the 6 month restriction time on being able to make a new claim. So actually... things seem bad today... but they may not be that disastrous.

If you did have extra emotional capacity it may also be worth complaing to ATOS about your treatment and potentially the regulatory body regarding the healthcare professional in question. I understand this is unlikely though... energies may be better focussed elsewhere.

Regarding feeling like a fraud... rest assured many of us do. I've run businesses, had my own, worked with some senior politicians, advised political organisations and charities, etc etc etc... yet I can't even get medical professionals who are supposed to be helping me to accept I can spell my name correctly. I get vacant looks of surprise when I say 'they keep spelling my surname wrong and I keep telling them to correct it'... this coming from the same people who I realised yesterday have now combined my last 2 GPs' names together and mis-spelt both... and now got my address wrong. If a sensitive document lands on a neighbour's doormat I wonder if it is my obsessional thinking or paranoia that is going to be most seriously affected by the people meant to help me get better...lol. You have to laugh sometimes or you could die with an unflattering expression on face.

popadom

When i went for one it was alot of physical questions and about my life: how is my driving test going, do i have many friends along those lines. I didnt see my write up of it. It kind of felt that they were trying to "catch me out" if you know what i mean. When i get nervous i become very chatty-when in reality/day to day im a reculse and avoid going out unless i have to/ someone is coming with me. I was also on one of my "high" days. I didnt know i could appeal. Your lucky your gp is helpful-mine arnt. In the end i went cold turkey on my anti depressant and my gp couldnt have cared less. Good luck.

CountryGuy

rgay1992 wrote: »

When i went for one it was alot of physical questions and about my life: how is my driving test going, do i have many friends along those lines. I didnt see my write up of it. It kind of felt that they were trying to "catch me out" if you know what i mean. When i get nervous i become very chatty-when in reality/day to day im a reculse and avoid going out unless i have to/ someone is coming with me. I was also on one of my "high" days. I didnt know i could appeal. Your lucky your gp is helpful-mine arnt. In the end i went cold turkey on my anti depressant and my gp couldnt have cared less. Good luck.

driving = equals able to concentrate
friends = able to socialise

In the eyes of ATOS

Muttleythefrog

rgay1992 wrote: »

When i went for one it was alot of physical questions and about my life: how is my driving test going, do i have many friends along those lines. I didnt see my write up of it. It kind of felt that they were trying to "catch me out" if you know what i mean. When i get nervous i become very chatty-when in reality/day to day im a reculse and avoid going out unless i have to/ someone is coming with me. I was also on one of my "high" days. I didnt know i could appeal. Your lucky your gp is helpful-mine arnt. In the end i went cold turkey on my anti depressant and my gp couldnt have cared less. Good luck.

Ah... these are definitely questions that can have indications for mental ill health effects. If you request a copy of the medical report it might be revealing. The feeling they're trying to catch you out is justified... in effect they often are. I'm tempted to say if they ask if you enjoy sex they aren't making a pass at you.. they're trying to find a way to fail you.

I understand the recluse... and the chatty nature etc when out.. and the unhelpful GP... it unfortunately is a real barrier to getting accurate understanding and help. When I go out... which I've managed 3 times since October and will do a 4th time to see GP next month... I am about as far from what people would expect as conceivable given the mental illnesses I'm diagnosed with. I've just got a psychiatric report that effectively confirms this... from the first medical professional who wasn't fooled by the illusion... although I did give him significant help to do his job. I too stopped taking my medication due to side effects and the GP wasn't interested... in fact later on at the end of the appointment he asked if I needed another prescription.

But what concerns me is you didn't realise you could appeal... possibly the DWP failed to send you the appropriate letter. Unfortunately there is a time limit to formally request appeal (although the actual appeal tribunal may take months or even over a year to occur).. probably a month... extended by 2 weeks I assume if you ask them for a statement of reasons for their decision. Outside of that time you'd need to make a strong case that you should be able to appeal... good excuse perhaps as to why you didn't in the time.

Otherwise you can apply again after 6 months I understand from the date of being turned down.

skintandscared_2

I've just found the letter I wrote (back in 2006). The assessment form was something called an IB50 (this may have changed now so please don't take this as gospel and it may now just be a guide to the sort of questions they ask!!!) and the mental health questions/points were:

QUESTION
RESPONSE
POINTS
Completion of Tasks section


Do you often sit for hours doing nothing?

2
Has agitation, confusion or forgetfulness resulted in mishaps or accidents in the last 3 months?

1
Can your concentration only be sustained by prompting?

1
Daily Living section


Do you need encouragement to get up and dress?

2
Are you frequently distressed at some point of the day due to fluctuation in mood?

1
Do sleep problems interfere with daily activities?

1
Coping with pressure


Was mental stress a factor in making you stop work?

2
Do you frequently feel scared or panicky for no obvious reason?

2
Do you avoid carrying out routine activities as you are convinced they will prove too tiring or stressful?

1
Are you able to cope with changes in daily routine?

1
Do you frequently find there are so many things to do, that you give up because of fatigue, apathy or disinterest?

1
Are you scared or anxious that work would bring back or worsen your illness?

1
Interaction with other people


Do you get so upset by ordinary events that it results in disruptive behavioural problems?

2
Do you get irritated by things which would not have bothered you before becoming ill?

1
Do you prefer to be alone for most of the day?

1
Are you too frightened to go out alone?

1
TOTAL POINTS





My OH was only asked TWO of these questions as his assessment, despite telling them he was schizophrenic/bipolar.

dmg24

Just to clarify, the questions quoted by skintandscared are for the old Incapacity Benefit PCA. They are no longer the same for the ESA WCA.