Which sells better?

Doozergirl

Joysmum wrote: »

There's nothing 'no brainer' about this at all as it will be dependant on the localised Market.

Also the op needs to bear in mind the costs involved in each option. No point in chasing for an increased selling price if the costs involved eat up that increased sale price of if the 4 beds sit on the Market for longer. It maybe preferable to go for the more saleable option rather than just thinking about sale value.

I don't see whats the problem in speaking to a few estate agents who will be able to offer advice based on the area the op is in rather than just going on generalised thoughts from people who don't know.

Just to further add to this. When I was looking for a couple of properties I did my homework as soon realised that I could get 3 beds for only 5 grand more than 2 beds. It doesnt always stack up that more is better. For the sake of 30mins chat with 3 estate agents I'd be finding out.

The extension has been built, the square footage is the same. The number of actual rooms, including bathrooms will be the same so the cost of erecting them will be the same - it's either three beds and three bathrooms (and a downstairs loo) or four beds and two bathrooms (and a downstairs loo). It will actually cost more money to put in all of the sanitary ware and extra plumbing and labour for the three bed - at least £2000.

Even if both permutations were marketed at the same price (which they shouldn't be), the 3 bed would have cost more to produce and the four bed would have a wider appeal because in general, people who want three beds will consider four, whereas people who want 4 beds won't generally consider 3. Value is held mainly in living accommodation.

I don't know of anywhere where people have a demand for more toilets than bedrooms, nor many three bedroom houses with family bathrooms as big as 9ft by 11ft - the average in this country is more like 6ft x 5ft! I own a 2400 square foot house. That has five double bedrooms, two ensuites and the bathroom is 8ft by 12ft, so a very similar size to the proposed family bathroom- it's giant with a freestanding bath, a big separate shower and a huge freestanding slate topped vanity. It suits the size of the house and the fact that three bedrooms share that room. The required size of a bathroom reduces with the number of people using it.

If the OP wanted to go mad, they could put an ensuite into one end the 9ft x 15ft bedroom and still have four bedrooms (I wouldn't bother though). You have to find the widest appeal and without a shadow of a doubt 4 bed 2 bath is much more normal and sought after than a 3 bed with 3 oversized bathrooms. You may as well have three ensuites as there isn't even call for a family bathroom when there is a downstairs loo. The only way the three bed would be better would be if the house wasn't reallly big enough to hold four bedrooms. But it is - it would be 4 doubles!

I know exactly what the EAs will say. A very simple straw poll of 4 bed 2 bath vs 3 bed 3 bath will give you the answer. It's the most no brain of no brainers if you want to appeal to the widest market and therefore the best price. If you can help it, no one should aim to be the most expensive house in relation to bedrooms because it automatically becomes the hardest one to sell.

Joysmum

How wonderful that you feel able to say with certainty what will be more saleable without knowing that particular market. I personally would not be so bold as to make such a claim, I just know my market. As I said, it's not just a question of price but also saleability which was the title of the thread. And in this Market I think that's more than sensible.

I still advise that the op spend some time with an estate agent to ask for specialised advise in her locality.... Or trust in the say so of a bunch of people she doesn't know who don't know her particular market. Hmmmm that really is a no brainer!

pinkshoes

A bathroom is a bathroom, so long as there's a bath in it, then I'm quite sure most people couldn't care less how big or small it is.

DEFINITELY a 4th bedroom!

You should attach a poll to the thread!

Doozergirl

Joysmum wrote: »

How wonderful that you feel able to say with certainty what will be more saleable without knowing that particular market. I personally would not be so bold as to make such a claim, I just know my market. As I said, it's not just a question of price but also saleability which was the title of the thread. And in this Market I think that's more than sensible.

I still advise that the op spend some time with an estate agent to ask for specialised advise in her locality.... Or trust in the say so of a bunch of people she doesn't know who don't know her particular market. Hmmmm that really is a no brainer!

I'd be that bold because I've been a property developer for 12 years. It's my job to know the market. If I wasn't totally sure, I wouldn't say it. The consensus on this thread is also pretty clear that most people want 4 bedrooms. Even DVardy, who wanted only 3 bedrooms, only wanted one bathroom! Whether or not 3 beds sell faster than 4 beds is completely by-the-by. Of course people are going to buy a massive 3 bed at a knock down price but we're talking here about someone who has three years to spare and can try to time when they hit the market to get the best result. They aren't looking to sell it quickly. You have to look at square footage of this house first and assess how you gain the best price per square foot. Now the extension has been built, the question of whether or not it should have been done has gone by. If it were in your area where nice little three beds get snapped up but the demand for bigger houses is lower, then it's likely you wouldn't have built it at all; good move.

But it has been done and we're looking at what will appeal to more people now that it is there. As a three bed, this house will be the biggest (and pointlessly biggest) three bedroomed house for miles around. It therefore makes it one of the most expensive. What will happen is that people will look at the giant bathroom and the higher price tag, look at another house with a 'normal' number and size of bathrooms and a lower price tag, assess their needs and choose the cheaper house. Nobody needs a three bedroom house with three bathrooms, one of which is the size of a double bedroom. The OP will have to drop their price in line with slightly smaller houses because the bigger bathroom adds no value.

People who can afford an expensive three bedroomed house, can also afford the lower end of the four bedroom market. What makes this particular house stand out is that it actually won't be a small four bedroom house. It ticks the 'four good bedrooms' box, it ticks the 'ensuite box' and the 'downstairs loo' box. It ticks more boxes than small four bed houses, which mean it just should never be considered to be even lower down the scale as a three bedroomed house.

The size of the house makes it a four bed. If it were smaller, there might be an argument, but there isn't. No estate agent in any area is going to walk into a nice sized four bedroom house and say "Do you know what, this would be worth more if you knocked out a wall and turned it into a 3 bed" Or even less likely, suggest turning the 4th double bedroom into a third bathroom instead to improve value. Not going to happen. Not even in your area. Think about it!

DannyboyMidlands

Unless you're aiming at a family who constantly suffer from the two bob bits then I think all the options have too many toilets. Particularly the 3 bed house with four of the damn things. What a waste of space and think of all the cleaning. It's just madness.

I reckon that a 3 bed house only needs one family bathroom and a downstairs toilet.

In answer to your question though, the 4 bed house with 3 toilets is more than adequate.

hcb42

4 bed definitely....I dont see the point of all these bathrooms , new builders are obsessed with toilets in particular!

I have never had an ensuite, apart from the time I rented when working away. I only have one small bathroom now, in a large three storey victorian house. (Although there is room for a reasonably sized second separate shower room on the top floor, or house could technically by 5 bed).

sonastin

I think bathrooms can be too big - you could end up with a lot of wasted floor space in a 9x11 bathroom. My mum's house had a smallish bathroom with a separate WC. She remodelled to make it all one room and that bit of hallway which was outside the two is still unused space - just behind the bathroom door instead of in front of it. A 6x8 bathroom is on the small side but it certainly isn't too small - put in a decent quality suite and, combined with an en-suite, it should be more than enough for a family bathroom.

And as doozergirl says, the 4 bedrooms are all a good size -big enough to be doubles. You're not squeezing a 4th bedroom in where there shouldn't be one. And although there is the market of older childless couples, the opportunity that Dvardyshadow points out is somewhat limited in comparison to the market for family properties. Some of us childless couples are happy to make do with something that is designed for family living but families can't make the same sort of compromises.

DVardysShadow

Doozergirl wrote: »

I'd be that bold because I've been a property developer for 12 years. It's my job to know the market. If I wasn't totally sure, I wouldn't say it. The consensus on this thread is also pretty clear that most people want 4 bedrooms. Even DVardy, who wanted only 3 bedrooms, only wanted one bathroom! Whether or not 3 beds sell faster than 4 beds is completely by-the-by. Of course people are going to buy a massive 3 bed at a knock down price but we're talking here about someone who has three years to spare and can try to time when they hit the market to get the best result. They aren't looking to sell it quickly. You have to look at square footage of this house first and assess how you gain the best price per square foot. Now the extension has been built, the question of whether or not it should have been done has gone by. If it were in your area where nice little three beds get snapped up but the demand for bigger houses is lower, then it's likely you wouldn't have built it at all; good move.

But it has been done and we're looking at what will appeal to more people now that it is there. As a three bed, this house will be the biggest (and pointlessly biggest) three bedroomed house for miles around. It therefore makes it one of the most expensive. What will happen is that people will look at the giant bathroom and the higher price tag, look at another house with a 'normal' number and size of bathrooms and a lower price tag, assess their needs and choose the cheaper house. Nobody needs a three bedroom house with three bathrooms, one of which is the size of a double bedroom. The OP will have to drop their price in line with slightly smaller houses because the bigger bathroom adds no value.

People who can afford an expensive three bedroomed house, can also afford the lower end of the four bedroom market. What makes this particular house stand out is that it actually won't be a small four bedroom house. It ticks the 'four good bedrooms' box, it ticks the 'ensuite box' and the 'downstairs loo' box. It ticks more boxes than small four bed houses, which mean it just should never be considered to be even lower down the scale as a three bedroomed house.

The size of the house makes it a four bed. If it were smaller, there might be an argument, but there isn't. No estate agent in any area is going to walk into a nice sized four bedroom house and say "Do you know what, this would be worth more if you knocked out a wall and turned it into a 3 bed" Or even less likely, suggest turning the 4th double bedroom into a third bathroom instead to improve value. Not going to happen. Not even in your area. Think about it!

I didn't really need to quote the above in full, but that it makes the point for me. There is a conventional wisdom being expressed here, but it isn't always correct. While the arguments might turn out right for 4 rather than 3, the very fact that it is described as a 'no brainer' indicates that there is too much conventional wisdom here!

Of course an agent is not going to tell you that the property is worth more for turning 4 beds to 3. But it might not be worth actually turning 3 into 4. In in my experience, there is a crying need for 3 bed detached with the right accommodation - we actually ended up with 2 for the price for we could have got a nice but not 'executive' 4 bedroom house.

I am not saying that it is worth more as a 3 over a 4. What I am saying OP, is don't dismiss your instinct that you should ask the question and consider whether yours is so far from the norm as a 3 bed that it actually has more value as a 3 bed with extra facilities than as a 4 bed squeezed out of a 3 bed.

MrsDrink

Thanks so much everyone for your feedback.

Just a few little bits -
* Yep it'd cost us more to put an ensuite & new bathroom in rather than just a new bathroom (obviously with a larger bath than we had originally and had never used in the 8 years we've live here). So in terms of value for money everything else being equal the 4 bedroom option would give us more return.
* I said I was aware there was a ceiling for our house based on our area and I would be pretty damn lucky to ever break through that. I was asking which'd sell more easily than which'd sell for more. (Unfortunately down our street we have mainly bungalows and OAPs so it's hard to draw comparisons in the market over the last so many years.).
* You have pretty much confirmed what we thought - whilst personally we'd want a 3 bedroom house with a large bathroom (I want a bath I can drown in), the market would be wider if we went with the 4 bedroom option - (using one as a child's room, one as a guest room, one as an office etc.)
* I don't know if this affects it but it really isn't the greatest sized house. It has a gallery kitchen (goodish sized but not one I can have a centre island in lol), a good sized dinning room, and a normal sized lounge (5m x 4m). I think part of us worries that families wanting a 4 bedroom house would feel the downstairs living areas would be too small.

Again thanks for the comments - they are very much appreciated.

PasturesNew

Emmzi wrote: »

But extra bed useful for study or people like me who entertain a lot!

Is entertaining in your bed how you're paying your way while you study?