How long do myths last?

michaels

I don't- if I were living in a cheaper part of the country I would be willing to do my job for less as I would still have the same disposable income; it is ludicrous to pay teachers the same amount in a nice rural area as in a challenging inner-London school. IN the rural location the job is easier and with much cheaper housing costs the salary goes much further. The obvious result is that the best teachers chose the best positions and the inner city schools often end up with those who can't find work elsewhere.

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

i agree with you that all workers doing the same job irrelevant of anything should get the same pay for the same work

LJ I normally agree with you but I find the dogma that health care paid for by the state must be provided by the state misguided. France with arguably one of the best health systems in the world has a lot of this provided by private doctors, the State foots the bill but doesn't try to provide the services. Similarly private schools in socialist Sweden have encouraged all schools to raise their game.

As others have mentioned it is not possible to afford all the health care we would like so surely that makes it all the more important that the best value for money is achieved from what is spent? The previous govt tried to achieve this via is huge array of targets but this only bred management layers and behaviour to 'game' the system- doesn't it make more sense to let patients and doctors decide where they would like to go for treatment?

lemonjelly wrote: »

Seriously, how long?

Cameron pledged that the NHS was safe in his hands. Well, no one agreed with his reforms, & he had to re-write them. Now we find that the tinkering done so far is causing it to get worse, not better:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13801051

Prior to the election, the conservatives were at pain to show their "caring, compassionate" side. Now however, they want the disabled to undercut other workers - giving the CBI an excuse to offer sub NMW salaries to disabled people under the pretence that they are giving them a helping hand. Yet another form of divide & conquer. I don't believe any of the boolsheet that MP came out with, he said what he said because he doesn't feel disabled people should earn as much as non-disabled people.

Oh, and cancer patients will get their benefits reduced after 12 months, even if they are still undergoing treatment, despite all round cries of "foul".

These are your caring compassionate conservatives.

Never mind though, I'm sure they'll be blaming the previous government (still) for the problems.

Loughton_Monkey

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

He's an aetheist Orthodox Jew. I'm only agnostic (-:

I've always found agnosticism hard work to be honest.

I mean, being an Atheist is probably really hard work. You have to really work hard against and belief and, if possible, persecute and argue with as many religious people as you can. [Argue, for example, how on earth two Polar Bears and two penguins could possibly have been found around that neck of the woods to go in the ark....]

But even to be an agnostic, you have to work at keeping an open mind. Give all religions houseroom, but at the same time not particularly believe in any one of them yourself.

Personally, I just keep out of the whole thing and "non believe". I can't be messing with trying to prove that dog doesn't exist [as the dyslexic athiest tried to do]. I just revel in the thought that they cannot all be right, and hence by definition you have a 99% chance that any specific religion must be wrong.

Best to believe in as little as possible. Then you don't get disappointed. At least when you believe in a supreme being, you will never be proved wrong (or right) until you die - when you can't crow about it.

The big trouble comes when you are like Macaque (or similar) who believe even more fervently that house prices will plummet by 30%. Quite a big 'ask' to get these people to drop that particular belief before they shuffle from the mortal coil, but I guess they eventually drop their belief quietly after a number of years.

Mr_Mumble

StevieJ wrote: »

Including der management

Yes! How often do managers start out their careers as managers though? Usually the higher paid have more skills. Skills that have usually been gained on the job. How are jobseekers, who're not currently worth £5.93 per hour, expected to garner these skills which could see them paid £20-30ph in a couple of years time?

If it is illegal for employers to provide such skills at an economic rate commensurate with the jobseekers current economic worth then you're stiffing growth (both personal and economic) along with putting another person in the unemployment line. Rich toffs know this, that's why they're happy to work for nowt while doing an internship. Campaigners for a minimum wage don't seem to look at this angle.

The lower end of the pay scale does have a bigger problems with substitution too. Jobs are usually lost via automation, machinery or technological advancement. The choice is not between employing someone at £6 per hour or not doing business, its usually £6 per hour or get in a machine with a particular capital and maintenance cost to do the same job. Machines don't require the employer to pay 13.8% in National Insurance Contributions either.

StevieJ

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

The lower end of the pay scale does have a bigger problems with substitution too. Jobs are usually lost via automation, machinery or technological advancement. The choice is not between employing someone at £6 per hour or not doing business, its usually £6 per hour or get in a machine with a particular capital and maintenance cost to do the same job. Machines don't require the employer to pay 13.8% in National Insurance Contributions either.

I would have thought that most £6 an hour jobs are bottom end service Mcjobs these days, jobs that could be automated probably already have been.

grizzly1911

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Oh wow, come on. That's so spun it's not even close to the truth. It's not "they". It's not giving anyone excuses as it's not happening.

ONE MP stated it, and the government quickly made steps to distance themselves.



It is in no way government policy. Or indeed, planned policy.

If the Government distanced themselves then it will probably happen:rotfl::rotfl:

I heard an employer on BBC saying he couldn't afford to take on another employee MW of £6.

If things are that bad he probably can't afford to take on anybody full stop the MW argument is an excuse.

grizzly1911

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

The pomposity of Britons believing their labour is "worth" x when someone in China is doing the same work for x - £5 per hour shows how deluded the nation has become.

You are comparing apples and pears you have two totally different economic models. In the same way that Japan percolated up that scale so will China.

At the same as the MW worker sinks so do we all.

Orpheo

We still live in a world where not believing in God can damage your career.

"If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say." Winston Zeddemore, Ghostbusters.

Orpheo

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

I can't be messing with trying to prove that dog doesn't exist [as the dyslexic athiest tried to do].

The dyslexic, agnostic insomniac stayed up all night wondering whether there really was a dog.

ILW

Orpheo wrote: »

The dyslexic, agnostic insomniac stayed up all night wondering whether there really was a dog.

And then sold his soul to Santa.

Thrugelmir

grizzly1911 wrote: »

You are comparing apples and pears you have two totally different economic models.

And I know which one I would back to come out on top in the longer term.