Please help, anyone - OH dismissed

pjcee

My OH dropped a massive bombshell this morning, I am in total shock.

He told me he was dismissed from CS on Friday for Gross Misconduct.

It would seem he visited a website on the internal internet where, for a few minutes on two occasions he viewed images of naked women (full-frontal only, nothing else, he swears, and will show me the reports). There was lot of other inoccuous stuff, Nuts or Sun type stuff, which under the regs would not constitute GM. Issue of time browsing has been rejected as it was av 10 mins a day, and he did way more than that working on blackberry etc, so they cannot say he was stealing time.

He says this happened as he was so stressed at work, last year he was given extra work and staff even though he had a fully loaded difficut post. He had recently moved to a new branch and the cuture was totally different, unsupportive and he did not feel he would get anywhere telling his boss how things were. Other staff had been in tears with stress of work and been given short shrift.
He has a excellent report this year, done all the work asked of him dispite feeling awful since july - like many men he did not want to look weak so he bottled it up, and would not go to doc. I knew he was down but not this bad.
As part of the investigation he was referred to Occ Heath doctor who says he has severe depression, must visit GP immediately and get berevement councelling (his mum died 2008). He believes the website thing was a way of coping with his undiagnosed depression and the extrra stress of the work being piled on.
He has been in CS 32 years, this is first time every there has been anything like this, he cannot belive none of this was taken into account. Others doing far worse have received only a written warning, or at worst downgrading.

I am at my wits end, no one to talk to, even him as I am so angry and upset.

What can we do? sorry for long post.

SarEl

I am not sure that there is a lot that you can do - he has breached policy in a big way. The amount of time doesn't matter, it was work time, it was a works computer and it was quite definitely an unacceptable site to be viewing. And working extra hours on the blackberry doesn't change any of that, I'm afraid. He should certainly appeal - which is his best shot at getting his job back. He should explain all the things that made him act out of character - everything you have explained here, and ask Occupational health to submit their report to the appeal, since this may help his case. Sometimes a fresh look at it may get a different result and he has nothing to loose.

Do not start complaining it is unfair because others get different - you can't prove this to a legal standard, and the best approach is contrite, apologetic and emphasising the fact that it is so out of character. If his GP is now involved too, then a letter from the GP supporting his mental condition may help too.

KiKi

Hi OP

Didn't want to read and run. I'm sorry to hear that you're so upset by the job loss, as well as angry at your husband.

It may well be true that this was an outlet for him, and for his depression, and the stress he was under.

However - I'm sorry - but using work computers to do this sort of this is absolutely unacceptable, and foolish at the very least. He would have known this. It is considered gross misconduct by most companies, and the result will be dismissal.

I am not sure of the legalities of:

a) other people getting a lesser punishment for worse things
b) if the depression would mitigate it in any way.

I'm sure someone will be along soon to help with that. If it *can* mitigate it, I still doubt he would get his job back; the best you might hope for in this situation is a neutral reference for future jobs.

EDITED: I see that SarEl has answered these points above, to appeal on the basis of b), and to forget a).

In the meantime, focus on your OH. You have every right to be angry, but it sounds like he needs some counselling for his grief and depression; focus on that for now, and hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me might be able to answer the points above.

All the best
KiKi

Hammyman

pjcee wrote: »

What can we do? sorry for long post.

You could start looking for a job if you're not already employed and give him support instead of sticking the knife in like everyone else. He obviously isn't up to working for a while.

pjcee

The policy thing is very complicated, and yes he is/was contrite, realises he has been a fool, etc. He will appeal.

The Occ Health report was submitted to the hearing, but it would seem that none of it was taken into consideration. His union rep was astounded that they did not consider a lesser punishment, he has never known anyone be dismissed for this sort of thing (the only thing in issue being the viewing of that image).

pjcee

I have a job, thanks. I am not sticking the knife in, I am angry that his employer has chosen to dismiss when there is plenty of precident for a lesser penalty - i know he was it was a stupid thing to do, but the consultants report said that this sort of behaviouris a classic sign of someone who is not coping.

dmg24

Looking at naked women at work is a means of coping with depression?

I have no problem with people looking at !!!!!!, I often do myself (albeit never at work), but please don't try to use depression as a reason for doing so.

SarEl

I wonder if we could actually stick to the point and not attack the OP or her husband merely for being angry or upset or even stupid. The OP hasn't glossed over the gory details or tried to excuse what he has done. I can fully understand why she is angry with him right now - it is a perfectly normal reaction to the fact that he has covered it all up and pretended that nothing was wrong, and not sought any help or support from her, during this whole process. I think most people would agree that having your OH turn to to say "Oh, by the way I got sacked today for browsing !!!!!! on the internet" is something you don't expect to hear every day - and certainly not without an inkling that anything was happening. I don't think she is sticking the knife in or she wouldn't be here asking for help for him.

People who have clinical depression often act out of character, and nobody is claiming that "looking at naked women is a means of coping with depression" - nor even that he doesn't look at naked women. He is, after all, a man. But doing something so wholly out of character in work knowing the rules full well, and having worked there for 32 years without a blemish on his record - well frankly doing anything so grossly stupid would seem to be somewhat out of character, wouldn't it?

OP - since he is in a union (and you didn't mention this before) he should talk to the union immediately about putting in an appeal. It may be unusual that this severe an outcome has been handed down, but it is also very hard to prove this since you cannot have access to other people's files or circumstances. Every case is different - and even a minute difference means that a different outcome may be justified. The other thing I have to mention, and I do apologise - are you absolutely and utterly sure that he has told you the whole truth? I have to ask that because people do tend to play down exactly how much they are guilty of after the event - especially to people who may be disappointed or upset by their behaviour. I have seen it plenty of times - "I was just browsing the internet for a bit during downtime" translated to 7:45 hours a week!

Make sure he gets to his GP if he hasn't already, and see whether his GP would support an appeal with a letter explaining his mental health issues and what is being done to address them. At an appeal, if there are any managers or senior staff who will give him character references and speak on his behalf, they would be useful. Basically, at this stage there is little more that can harm him, because the worst has happened. In framing an appeal it may be worth asking for a lesser penalty - like a final warning instead. Put the idea in their head and make it clear that he is perfectly prepared for any outcome if they will rescind the dismissal. As I have observed before on these boards, when guilty, absolutely any defence is worth a go, so do not disgard the idea of pleading - it has been known to work. He's been stupid. There is no excuse for that. So some humble pie isn't going to be that hard to swallow.

mandragora_2

Am I reading the OP correctly, in that as well as looking at the !!!!!! he was also using work time and computer to access sites like Nuts, Sun etc, for around ten mins a day?

Oldernotwiser

Are you sure that he wasn't looking at anything harder than nude women? You only have his word for it and it could explain the tough punishment.

pjcee

Thanks Sar EL for your very constructive posts.

The union are involved, and will support him in an appeal - they have access to precident papers and have said that it is virtually unheard of for anyone to be dismissed for doing what he did, or indeed, for many more far worse behaviours.

He has fully admitted that what he did was wrong, but taken in context with his state of mind and previous good conduct was fully expecting at the most a downgrade (which he accepts). No one was prepared for such harsh treatment.

He has told me I can have access to all the case docs, so when he says it was only those images I beieve him, otherise he would only be found out later.

He does not understand why he needed to look at these images, that is something that he has to get help from the doctor for (believe me he has been to the docs about twice in all the time I have known him, 28 years, for him to go is a massive thing in itself).

I don't think either of us are underestimating how crassly stupid this was, just that perhaps that dismissal was not necessarily the only option available.