is company trying to force me out of work?

smc1969

is my employers trying to force me to quit?i have worked for a company in glasgow for over 6yrs,i travel from ardrossan everyweekday to my place of work which is all over the place,glasgow,airdrie,lanarkshire etc,without any notice they took there van of me monday afternoon,had to wait for supervisor to take me home as no money for fare home,asked why they took van said it was to costly to run from ayrshire,yet ive been doing the same runs for 5 yrs,no problems then,now they have shipped me upto other side of glasgow for which i cant get up there in train or bus as i arrive to late as its 2 buses and trains,making it a timekeeping problem which as you know is a dismissal,my only other means is car which is 75pw in fuel which i cant afford as its a low income,i went to citazens advice,they told me to right a letter to company which i did,told them i need a written reply,i got refused,so then asked for my written statement of terms and conditions,that day i asked for it of my contracts manager,my site supervisor telling me he had seen the letter what was suppose to be private and confidential,isnt that breach of rights?he also says that im getting shifted to wishaw to work, which is a 90 mile round trip a day which is about 90 in fuel a week,they are a few sites that i can go to which is nearer yet there sending me futher a field. i will have to resign as its the only option as cant afford it each week.

SarEl

I am afaid that it is difficult to give you a sensible answer here (a) because your post is very difficult to read (not a single break or full stop or capital letter) and (b) because you haven't told us very much about the work you do, why you had a van, or anything else important.

I think that you may have been a bit over eager to get into formal processes with letters and so on, so to an extent, although I am not saying the employer has acted well, you appear to have brought their wrath down on yourself without trying the less formal options first. As far as I can see here, they took the van back on Monday and by Friday you were writing formal letters demanding written replies - cutting out any chance of negotioating this amicably or quietly.

On the face of it, and from what I can make out in your post, your normal job involves working on multiple and distant sites, so you do not appear to have any grounds to complain about which site you are sent to. They do not have to send you to a close site - you go where you are required. As you sais, your "place of work is all over the place" and this is normal working practice, so sending you somewhere else is normal practice.

Based on what you say here - and again I say, it isn't much - your employer does not appear to have any obligation to provide you with a van. They certainly do not have any responsibility for getting you to and from your workplace - and in fact if they have been paying for the perol for this (which seems to be the case, because you say that you cannot afford the fuel for a car to get to and from work) then they should have been charging you for this van and fuel as a taxable benefit - which is a high tax cost to you in having a company vehicle for private use. Judging by what you say, they appear not to have done so (and don't even think of going to HMRC to report the employer - because it will be you that gets the tax bill!), and I cannot see that it is entirely unreasonable of the employer to say that they cannot any longer support the costs of getting you too and from work, when they never needed to do so at all. Fuel costs are through the roof now - or haven't you noticed that it costs so much more than 5 years ago - and many employers are looking at where they can cut costs. A good starting place would be cutting costs that they do not have to, and should not be, paying.

For all of these reasons it would have been much more sensible to have attempted to discuss this with the employer in a reasonable way. I am not clear what the contents of the letter you sent were or on what basis you sent it, but sending it and demanding your terms and conditions has acted like a red flag to the employer. You have started out by making demands without talking to them, or even working out whether you have a legal right to what you want.

If you want any more advice you will have to tell us more, including what CAB told you and what was in the letter you sent. I am also assuming that you are in the construction industry, but that is a guess - we need to know what you do - and are you certain that you are an employee, because there is a difference between being a worker and being an employee, as many industries - like construction - have different working practices which mean that many people are not employees in the first place.

LittleVoice

smc1969 wrote: »

Are my employers trying to force me to quit?

I have worked for a company in Glasgow for over 6 years. I travel from Ardrossan every weekday to my place of work which is all over the place (Glasgow, Airdrie, Lanarkshire etc).

Without any notice, they took their van off me on Monday afternoon. I had to wait for a supervisor to take me home as I had no money for the fare home.

I asked why they took the van and they said it was too costly to run it from Ayrshire and yet I've been doing the same runs for 5 years with no problems. Now they have shipped me up to other side of Glasgow to which I can't get by train or bus as I arrive too late as it's 2 buses and trains. This makes it a timekeeping problem which, as you know, is a reason for dismissal. My only other means is car which is £75 per week in fuel which I can't afford as I'm on a low income.

I went to Citizens Advice. They told me to write a letter to the company, which i did. I told them I need a written reply. I was refused. So I then asked for my written statement of terms and conditions. That day I asked for it from my contracts manager my site supervisor told me he had seen the letter which was supposed to be private and confidential. Isn't that a breach of rights?

He also said that I'm getting relocated to Wishaw to work. That is a 90 mile round trip a day, which is about £90 in fuel a week. There are a few sites that I can get to which are nearer yet they are sending me further afield. I will have to resign as it's the only option as I can't afford it each week.

A contracts manager communicating with a site supervisor about the working arrangements for staff is not a breach of your rights: it is about staff management and lines of responsibility. (Were you thinking of data protection or right to a private life under the Human Rights Act?)

vax2002

If they wanted you to work there, they wouldn't pull stunts like this.
Look for another job where you will be valued.

kelpie35

Can you not move house to be nearer your job?

That would cut down your travel time and expenses.

smc1969

friday 3rd june 2011:was told by supervisor

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that i was not to go to islay
with others to work when clearly there was work for me there,that i was to go to springboig
in glasgow.39 miles away.starting monday 6th june 2011.
monday 6th june:
worked with van all week to glasgow from ayrshire.(estimated mileage use 400 +) monday all day clearing containers and driving from springboig to bailiston 4 trips=more milage and fuel used that they were so worried about cost.
monday 13th june 2011
arrived at place of work,was then told by supervisor

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that the work van was getting taken off me
and that i had to make my own way up to work site in springboig glasgow,after taking van off me late afternoon,(thinking i would have it for rest of week)
had to wait for supervisor to run me home as i had no money for train fare home.once home i phoned mr

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contracts manager and stated that i cant afford to run car as its to dear on fuel,cant get bus as it gets me in too late,same as train as im from ardrossan,ayrshire,my only option was to ask for my redundacy,which was declined,yet other drivers and labourer were getting laid off.asked why van was taken off me the reply was that it was to costly to run,yet they sent me to balloch,airdrie,girvan,cadder,clydebank,east kilbride,paisley,etc
over the years working with them,worked in cadder for over a year running from ardrossan and back,without any problem about the cost.
tuesday 14th june 2011:
had to take day of as no money for fuel to get to my work,i then visited citizens advice,which they put me on to
employment lawyer,which told me to write a letter of greivence,stating that they had to find me means of transport
to get my work as it is impossible for me to get to my place of work with public transport,from ayrshire as i wouldnt make
it in on time as i need 2 buses or 2trains to get there.later on in evening got text from supervisor

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telling me to text him when
im arriving and leaving job next morning(basicly trying to see if im going to be late arriving as that is a sackable offence bad timekeeping)but cant get me on that as i have a great work record 6yrs service with only 2 days absent due to bereavement, never been late arriving to place of work either.
wednesday 15th june2011--(78 miles round trip £15 in fuel used)
arrived at worked 7,25 am text my supervisor

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that i arrived,9,30 contracts manager arrived,gave him letter and asked him if i can get
a written reply back,my answer was no,so i said to him that your no replying then? right thats fine and left it at that,then asked for my written
statement of term and conditions,which he aggreed to give me.late afternoon supervisor

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came on site.told me that i was to go wishaw
45 miles away,thats a 90 mile return trip for which i cannot afford,supervisor also stated that he had read the letter that was suppose to be confedential( and only for contracts manager) so i think they breached my rights there,they had no right to do that, they are several sites around glasgow that i could have easly worked at
all within reach.once home i phoned (acas) who gave me some advice,i have also been told from
a friend that there been laying off good few men round the diffrent sites around glasgow and im
getting sent way out there to work.it is i my own words that this company is trying to force me to quit as in paying out money to me.
thursday 16th june2011--(78 miles round trip £15 in fuel used)
arrived at work 7.15am text to my supervisor that i arrived,9.40 supervisor arrives on site,while working my employment advisor phones12.15pm
spoke to him for 10 mins on phone,after phone call supervisor trying to quiz me what employer advisor had to say.i told him that i need the statement of terms and conditions(contract)to give to my employment advisor,i then asked him when im going to wishaw,i was told monday or tuesday.if something isnt resolved i have no option but to resign,and that means i have no income and will be suspended from bru.leaving me worse of as i cant support myself with low income (bills,food etc).my take home pay is also decreased because of van allowance taken off me now,£220 after £70 fuel for week(springboig glasgow)(£80-£90 wishaw,lanarkshire)leaves £150-£130, rent,loan bills,direct debits basicly leaves me with nothing,the reason i cannot afford to use my own transport.
friday 17th june2011(78 miles round trip £15 fuel used)
arrived at site 7.15am text my supervisor that i had arrived,worked my shift,left site after texting supervisor,everything ok,finished till monday20th.

driver/labourer construction (company also taking extra tax for use of van to place of work)
here is also letter that i sent to company.
i

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am writing to{ company}.to let you know that i am willing and able to travel to glasgow and lanarkshire area-
to work. company should find me means of transport to get to my place of work,but since ive been told that its to costly
and now have taken the van of me,therefore it is there obligation to find me means of suitable transport as i am from ayrshire.
car=£75 pw, 2 x trains=£70pw, 2 x bus=£ 45pw. as you can see it is to costly for me,ive also been told that i would be losing my drivers allowance,which again takes more money of me of which im at loss again.with bills and rent etc to pay too it leaves me with very low income,i have been informed by an employment lawyer that is my right to ask for-
WRITTEN STATEMENT OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS as it is statutory law to ask for one.thank you.

DATE 14/O6/2011 [ Employment Rights Act 1996 requires employers to provide most employees with a written statement of the main terms within two calendar months of starting work.]
and no i dont get expenses either.

Emmzi

take all of the names out of your post!! what if your employer reads this and decides to dismiss for bringing the company into ill repute?

marywooyeah

LittleVoice wrote: »

A contracts manager communicating with a site supervisor about the working arrangements for staff is not a breach of your rights: it is about staff management and lines of responsibility. (Were you thinking of data protection or right to a private life under the Human Rights Act?)

The right to a private life comes from Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, not the Human Rights Act. The HRA allows individuals to enforce their convention rights in domestic courts - it's a common misconception that the Human Rights come from the Human Rights Act.

OP - I wouldn't advise you to go down the Human Rights route at all

hcb42

OP:

Difficult to read, but I assume the permanent base of work is Wishaw? You live in Ardrossan, (which I know very well, lived in Ayrshire for 13 years and commuted to both Glasgow and even Fife!). Your company does not have to pay you for commuting to and from work, as SarEl said in first reply. I know it is very expensive getting from Ayrshire into Glasgow and certainly to the other side of Glasgow, but you will have to decide if you want to keep this job or get one nearer to home. But you and I both know there are not masses of opportunities in Ayrshire.

If your base is not Wishaw, but some other place, or indeed was from home, then I can understand your frustration, I think you will need to appeal to their better nature about what the solution is though, in that case. THey could say, (Perhaps they have, hard to follow your posts) that the job exists in Wishaw only, and is non negotiable

Emmzi

A key issue here is what your contract says about your normal place of work.

So, for a number of years you had use of a company van to get to work.

If your normal place of work is "your house" then it's reasonable to have transportation to other locations paid for.

If your normal place of work is eg "Wishaw" then it is reasonable for you to have funded your own transport to the site (and if you find it expensive surely your employer does to? I would not use a haardship arguement.)

If you had tranposrt provided to your normal place of work for a number of years the question is
a) was that sufficiently long to establish customer and practice? and
b) were you declaring it as a benefit and paying tax on it to HMRC? (as you cannot have it both ways!)

At this stage, in my opinion, the most important thing to know is whether your contact says anything about your usual place of work.

SarEl

I would agree with both of these posts and I find it incerdible that an employment lawyer associated with CAB would have told you to write and tell them they had to transport you to and from work without knowing your contractual conditions. An adviser, yes - because their legal knowledge is slim and they frequently tell people things that are wrong. And I certainly would never have told you to start a formal process without knowing your terms and conditions, nor as a first move. By going down this route you have closed the door to negotiation, and that is never a wise move. I am still not convinced yet that there is a clear cut case of the employer having done anything much wrong. Even if you could establish custom and practice of this as a term of employment, which is by no means certain, the employer could still have taken the van back by serving you notice that they were going to do so. And it is by no means certain, either, that an employment tribunal (which in the end is what matters since you are now on a formal route) would rule this unfair because of a process deficiency, if the outcome would have been the same had due process been followed.

However, it is fairly obvious that when you get to the place of work you need access to a van, and that those costs have to be covered by the employer because they are business costs. So is there utterly no room to discuss this with your employer, and you pay for the petrol for your commute to work?