No copy of loan agreement?

Sagaris

Sorry if this is whe wrong part of the forum - I don't think I've posted in this section before!

I have been helping out a friend with their debts - not paying them off, she was in a very bad place, being hassled by debt collectors etc despite her best efforts to pay what she could - she gave me permission to operate the accounts on her behalf. I dealt with the debt collectors etc (it's always easier when it's not yours!), opened a basic bank account and got them on a DMP with CCCS which has all gone well so far.

The debts are with Barclays, who have not exactly been helpful - initially I was threatened with bailiffs etc (apparently they could visit me as they had my details!) but managed to convince them not to bother! Everything calmed down, but recently the calls etc have started again - apparently Barclays now use a different debt collection agency, and they didn't have a copy of the loan agreement or repayment plan, so they wanted a copy of her SOA so they could make 'adjustments' in the amount they were getting. They also would not deal with me, so I got that sorted, then approached Barclays for a copy of the loan agreement, and asked if PPI had been paid on the loan - with all the publicity surrounding PPI at the moment I thought there was no harm in asking.

Today my friend had had a letter from Barclays, just saying 'Unfortunately, we can no longer obtain copies of your loan agreement. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused in this matter'.

I haven't said anything to her, she has been paying them off for over 5 years and has about another 3 to go, but I thought they had to supply copies of the paperwork if requested? She has done really well paying everything back, there were 4 debts originally but by taking another part time job for a while she managed to get F&F's on 2 of the debts, so it's not a case of her trying to get out of paying anything back - I'm just looking into it for her.

Also, Barclays cannot supply a copy of the original agreement, how will we find out if any PPI was taken out on the loan?

Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can offer - I would love to see her debt free after so many years!

BigCraigJohn

Well if they admitted in writing that theres no agreement then guard that letter with your life, in admitting there was no agreement they have admitted that they cant do a thing about it. If theres no agreement how does your friend know what they agreed to?, how do can they check the terms and conditions?etc.
Id put the account in dispute and withold payment until such a time that they provide her with an agreement and because of what they have told you, you need to insist on it being the original, after all how can they reconstitute and agreement if there is not an original to take the details from?, they are entitled to chase for it but can not sell it on or take legal action.

amersall

You need to send a SAR to barclays this will cost £10 but it will be worth it if the information can be found.
As this loan is still "running" they should have no problem finding this.
The banks are using every stalling trick in the book at the moment, and i am suprised at barclays.
PLease try a SAR and take it from there.
Although there is a time limit that they have to hold your data for, people on this site have recieved copies of their agreements from older loans that have been passed over for collections.

You will get all the help you need if you post this here.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=169


And do as BigCraigJohn said.

Sagaris

SAR sent - I await the results with interest!

So, do I need to tell CCCS that Barclays have written to say they cannot find the original agreement, and for them not to pay that particular debt? Or carry on with the payments and see what Barclays come up with?

The letter is safely filed away - many thanks to BigCraigJohn and amersall for your help - I will update as and when we hear anything!

fermi

CCCS are usually not happy with stopping payments just because a credit agreement cannot be found.

It doesn't invalidate the debt. Just means that if push comes to shove, the creditor/DCA might not be able to get a court order to enforce the debt.

How did you request a copy of the agreement? Formally via a CCA request enclosing the £1? Or just asking informally?

Sagaris

Informally initially, and asking that I be put as the only contact on the account - my friend is not shirking her debts, but the harrassment got so bad she attempted suicide. That's how I found out about the debts, I was contacted to go to A&E as she was in too much of a state to do anything - I'm staying as contact on the accounts as I don't want a repeat of that!

I have today written to them formally requesting the information via a CCA request with the cheque enclosed. I won't contact CCCS then, and will let the DMP run - if Barclay's can't come up with the paperwork, what happens? Will the debt be written off, and what happens to her credit record - it's pretty bad as although she's been paying the DMP on time every month, it still shows as an 'arrangement to pay' on her credit record.

Sorry if I appear a bit dense - I've never dealt with anything like this! Looking at her CCCS account, she's paid off over 2/3 of what she owed, and they would not refund her any bank charges either, which add up to over £1600!

fermi

For the time being I would say keep going with CCCS.

At least until you get an answer regarding the PPI anyway.

Unlikely the debt would be written off. Lack of a credit agreement just means it can't be enforced via the courts (assuming it was an agreement from before April 2007).

If there isn't a credit agreement, that doesn't mean that the info recorded on the credit files must be removed.

Sagaris

That's what concerns the though, Fermi - if they can't find any paperwork relating to the loan, how will we know if PPI was added?

Sagaris

Well the request was sent on the 18th with the fee enclosed - and so far nothing! What do I do next please? There appears to be no record of the original loan agreement so how will my friend know if PPI was added - I strongly suspect there was!

Sagaris

So - I sent the second letter after waiting the prescribed time - and today we have a letter from Barclays enclosing a financial statement and reconstituted copy of the credit agreement! They say that this meets the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act, and that sections 77 and 78 say that they do not have to provide a signed copy of the original ,and it is not their policy to supply this anyway.

They have still not made any mention of any PPI that was added to the account, although there is a sheet at the end of the statement detailing the benefits of PPI - it's all just a typewritten statement with no mention of anything else - what do I do next please?