Getting our damage deposit back?

FilmPhoto83

I moved out of the student house, which I shared with 3 others, on 13th May this year. Although the tenancy doesn't officially end until this Saturday, my moving out was agreed by the landlady. We had a meeting the day before about how much of my deposit i should get back and as a result I'm challenging so much of it.

The problem is, the deposit is in the name of a girl who moved out, on bad terms, in February and despite asking our landlady to change it, she offered various excuses as to why she wouldn't. Now there's 3 of us left needing the information from this lead tenant in order to get at our deposits but so far we've heard nothing. When i spoke to the landlady last she offered some paltry explanation about what was happening which for the life of me i can't even understand.

The Deposit Protection Service can't do anything. So, can i seek legal advice to get my deposit back or is it a matter of waiting until the lead tenant can be bothered to sort it? Surely there must be something i can do. Sorry for the essay, any help greatly appreciated.

BitterAndTwisted

If you were on a joint-tenancy the deposit will be registered under the lead-tenant's name. It will be that person who will need to negotiate about any deductions with the landlord and that person who will be responsible for distributing your shares back to you.

You cannot reasonably expect any deposit to be returned to you until the tenancy has ended.

tbs624

Presumably the LL agreed to the other (lead) T moving out in Feb - was this T released from the tenancy and was someone else brought in to replace her? Was the newcomer, if yes, asked to pay a deposit share to the outgoing T?

What paperwork is there to evidence this, if this is the case?

If there has been a change in a joint tenancy the Ts and Cs of the DPS require the LL to notify them. The LL is also the person reponsible for ensuring that the Ts understand the role of the Head T and agree to the nomination. See below:

8. Joint Tenancies and Third Parties

a. Where there are Joint Tenants the Landlord is recommended to arrange for the individual Deposits of each Joint Tenant to be submitted separately to The DPS.

Alternatively, where there are Joint Tenants or a Third Party registered together on a Deposit, the Landlord must manage the relationship between the Joint Tenants, and between the Tenant and any Third Party, and identify a Lead Tenant in the Deposit Submission Form who is authorised to act on behalf of all Joint Tenants and any Third Party.

b. The Lead Tenant will represent the interests of all Joint Tenants and any Third Party, and will act on their behalf specifi cally in connection with the completion of the Joint Repayment Form, any Statutory Declaration or the Tenant’s Evidence Form or any other relevant Form. It is the responsibilityof the Lead Tenant to agree with the Landlord the distribution of Deposit at the end of the Tenancy between the Landlord, the Joint Tenants who are party to any Joint Tenancy and any Third Party. Instructions will only be accepted if they have been signed by the Lead Tenant or the Lead Tenant has entered their Repayment ID .

c. The Lead Tenant will be responsible for providing repayment information for each Tenant and the Third Party and a valid forwarding address/email address for each Tenant and the Third Party to enable The DPS to provide repayment confi rmation notices to each Tenant and the Third Party. The Lead Tenant will be required to provide their signature on repayment forms on behalf of all of the Joint Tenants.

d. It is the responsibility of the Landlord completing the Deposit Submission Form to ensure that the responsibilities of the Lead Tenant are fully understood by all Tenants, and any Third Party, and that the Lead Tenant is nominated by all of the Joint Tenants and any Third Party.

e. The Landlord will be required to confi rm on the Deposit Submission Form that they have explained to all Tenants, and any Third Party, the role and responsibility of the Lead Tenant.

f. Changes to Joint Tenancy information is the responsibility of the Landlord

If the LL failed to notify DPS then she has broken their Ts and Cs and you should point this out to the DPS *in writing* and ask for their suggestion of how best to resolve that part of the equation.Have you discussed the issues with your remaining fellow Ts?

As you too seem to be moving out early OP , are you paying rent etc to the end of the Fixed Term or do you have you the LL's agreement in writing to do otherwise?

For future reference note that DPS will accept individual deposit regisrations under a J&SL tenancy (see 8a above) and you should ask the LL to do just that.

jjlandlord

FilmPhoto83 wrote: »

We had a meeting the day before about how much of my deposit i should get back and as a result I'm challenging so much of it.

If you have a joint-tenancy there is no such thing as "your" share of the deposit as far as the landlord is concerned.
The landlord has one tenant, all the joint tenants collectively. It is for the joint tenants to sort things out among them once the deposit is returned.

tbs624 wrote: »

Presumably the LL agreed to the other (lead) T moving out in Feb - was this T released from the tenancy and was someone else brought in to replace her? Was the newcomer, if yes, asked to pay a deposit share to the outgoing T?

If the tenant (ie. the list of joint tenants) change, it means that the tenancy ends. Following that a new one may be granted to the new tenant (ie. the new list of joint tenants).
An incoming joint tenant cannot be asked to pay anything to an incoming joint tenant. The deposit is strictly between tenant and landlord.

a. Where there are Joint Tenants the Landlord is recommended to arrange for the individual Deposits of each Joint Tenant to be submitted separately to The DPS.

But there are no individual deposits in a joint tenancy!

FilmPhoto83

tbs624 wrote: »

Presumably the LL agreed to the other (lead) T moving out in Feb - was this T released from the tenancy and was someone else brought in to replace her? Was the newcomer, if yes, asked to pay a deposit share to the outgoing T?

What paperwork is there to evidence this, if this is the case?

If there has been a change in a joint tenancy the Ts and Cs of the DPS require the LL to notify them. The LL is also the person reponsible for ensuring that the Ts understand the role of the Head T and agree to the nomination. See below:

8. Joint Tenancies and Third Parties

a. Where there are Joint Tenants the Landlord is recommended to arrange for the individual Deposits of each Joint Tenant to be submitted separately to The DPS.

Alternatively, where there are Joint Tenants or a Third Party registered together on a Deposit, the Landlord must manage the relationship between the Joint Tenants, and between the Tenant and any Third Party, and identify a Lead Tenant in the Deposit Submission Form who is authorised to act on behalf of all Joint Tenants and any Third Party.

b. The Lead Tenant will represent the interests of all Joint Tenants and any Third Party, and will act on their behalf specifi cally in connection with the completion of the Joint Repayment Form, any Statutory Declaration or the Tenant’s Evidence Form or any other relevant Form. It is the responsibilityof the Lead Tenant to agree with the Landlord the distribution of Deposit at the end of the Tenancy between the Landlord, the Joint Tenants who are party to any Joint Tenancy and any Third Party. Instructions will only be accepted if they have been signed by the Lead Tenant or the Lead Tenant has entered their Repayment ID .

c. The Lead Tenant will be responsible for providing repayment information for each Tenant and the Third Party and a valid forwarding address/email address for each Tenant and the Third Party to enable The DPS to provide repayment confi rmation notices to each Tenant and the Third Party. The Lead Tenant will be required to provide their signature on repayment forms on behalf of all of the Joint Tenants.

d. It is the responsibility of the Landlord completing the Deposit Submission Form to ensure that the responsibilities of the Lead Tenant are fully understood by all Tenants, and any Third Party, and that the Lead Tenant is nominated by all of the Joint Tenants and any Third Party.

e. The Landlord will be required to confi rm on the Deposit Submission Form that they have explained to all Tenants, and any Third Party, the role and responsibility of the Lead Tenant.

f. Changes to Joint Tenancy information is the responsibility of the Landlord

If the LL failed to notify DPS then she has broken their Ts and Cs and you should point this out to the DPS *in writing* and ask for their suggestion of how best to resolve that part of the equation.Have you discussed the issues with your remaining fellow Ts?

As you too seem to be moving out early OP , are you paying rent etc to the end of the Fixed Term or do you have you the LL's agreement in writing to do otherwise?

For future reference note that DPS will accept individual deposit regisrations under a J&SL tenancy (see 8a above) and you should ask the LL to do just that.

It was never a joint tenancy but the deposits were all placed as one. As far as i'm aware the LL never notified the DPS of the lead tenant moving out because the person who replaced her paid his deposit to her directly. So she has her money.

There's no paperwork for that as far as i know but i can't be sure. I paid my rent to the end of the tenancy so i'm fully paid up. I moved out early because my course ended at the beginning of May. The last tenant also moved out early on 1st June. This was all agreed by the LL but no paperwork was ever signed by anyone.

jjlandlord

FilmPhoto83 wrote: »

It was never a joint tenancy but the deposits were all placed as one. As far as i'm aware the LL never notified the DPS of the lead tenant moving out because the person who replaced her paid his deposit to her directly. So she has her money.

Do you mean you all have individual tenancy agreements?
Because if so there cannot be a lead tenant or whatever...

Assuming you have an individual tenancy agreement, since there is no deposit protected in your name your deposit is simply not protected.
As such you should request repayment directly to your landlord and bring a money claim against her if she does not.

FilmPhoto83

jjlandlord wrote: »

Do you mean you all have individual tenancy agreements?
Because if so there cannot be a lead tenant or whatever...

Assuming you have an individual tenancy agreement, since there is no deposit protected in your name your deposit is simply not protected.
As such you should request repayment directly to your landlord and bring a money claim against her if she does not.

Yes. We were all on a seperate tenancy with seperate contracts. But, after we had all moved in (this happened across 2 weeks at the beginning of september), she placed all our deposits into the DPS together. With one girl as lead tenant.

So what you're saying is that our deposits should have been placed into the DPS seperately since we were on single tenancies?

jjlandlord

FilmPhoto83 wrote: »

So what you're saying is that our deposits should have been placed into the DPS seperately since we were on single tenancies?

Yes.

Imo, since there is no deposit related to your tenancy protected in your name the conclusion is that it is in effect not protected.
Therefore there is no need to have any dealings with the DPS, you should go to your landlord directly.

FilmPhoto83

jjlandlord wrote: »

Yes.

Imo, since there is no deposit related to your tenancy protected in your name the conclusion is that it is in effect not protected.
Therefore there is no need to have any dealings with the DPS, you should go to your landlord directly.

Well, i'd like to say i'm surprised but frankly i'm not. The stupidity of my (now former) LL knows no bounds, it would seem.

So how does it work if that's the case and there's a dispute on the deposit? She thinks i should only get £80 odd back and i think i should get all but £10 (£140). I have pictures to prove that i left the house in the state i found it, also.

BitterAndTwisted

Does your landlady have any proof of the condition of the property at the start of your tenancy? if not, she can't charge you for anything. Just dispute any deductions she wants to make IN WRITING and give her x number of days to return it.

And start drafting your Letter Before Action

FilmPhoto83

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Does your landlady have any proof of the condition of the property at the start of your tenancy? if not, she can't charge you for anything. Just dispute any deductions she wants to make IN WRITING and give her x number of days to return it.

And start drafting your Letter Before Action

I honestly couldn't say on the evidence front. I know she has a piece of paper that stated what she wanted to deduct and what i was prepared to challenge that I signed. As for anything else, I couldn't say. I have pictures, though.

Also, probably a daft question, but what's the 'Letter Before Action'? Do i just state what action i plan to take if she doesn't come up with the money?