Right of Access - End terrace HELP PLEASE!

GlynD

stuart_faust wrote: »

The dog area is about 30ft long and i cant afford to do that.
the fence would have to be 6ft high and then would block any light coming into my living room and kitchen window.

It's not a good enough excuse, honestly and with the greatest of respect. You're going to have to offer this if you don't want to lose the dog yard.

Yorkie1

GlynD, what is your authority for saying that if neither set of deeds show the right of access, there is nevertheless a right of access with which the OP must comply?

G_M

stuart_faust wrote: »

...
is it the Title register that i need to look at from the land registry site?

Sigh!

It's the Deeds that matter. Yours and theirs.

£4 each for your Title, your Plan,their Title, their Plan. Buy and read them.

but cant leave her to enter they back alone or have her leave gates open and then have kids or the dogs wondering in and out!

Fit one of those self-closing springs to the gate? With a lock that locks when the gate closes so it self-locks?
There ARE ways round problems if you think laterally.

Either you fight this legally, which means
a) getting the deeds and looking (WHY haven't you done that yet?)
b) ending up with neighbours who hate you - win or lose

Or you find a compromise.

pete1968_2

GlynD, what is your authority for saying that if neither set of deeds show the right of access, there is nevertheless a right of access with which the OP must comply?

In many older properties specific rights weren't granted by deed and quasi easements existed particularly with terraced houses. This could well be covered by the case of Wheeldon v Burrows and therefore if the whole block of terraced houses were onced owned by the same person and sold without specific rights then the Wheeldon v Burrows case could turn these quasi easements into easements. (unless speicically excluded)

Also s62 law of property Act 1925 may apply (google that if relevant).

Finally, rights of way may have been acquired by long user and therefore have arisen by prescription.

There's not enough information here to get a full picture, it would be a case of looking at the deeds/registers of both properties, how old they are, how long current owners (or previous ones) have used or not used the access etc. Whether any previous owner is able to swear a statutory declaration as to the claimed right covering 20 years (at best 40 years). Also how many properties are in the terrace, have others got the right to use the access etc?

It is possible for one set of deeds to contain rights and the other not to show these rights and for this then to be reflected if registered at Land Registry. However, it depends on the order (date) in which registration occurred. Its a complicated issue but the rights (if any) could exist as overridding interests on the register. Registration at land registry is a recording of documents. If the deeds don't deal with a matter then land registry won't record it on the register (generally speaking). The other points referred to above then may/may not take effect.

Lodged with MY deeds is a letter from a previous owner back in the 1970's giving permission to a previous owner of MY property to install the gates and have 'free and unhindered access through the gates adjacent to his garage entrance.'.

If this is a letter between two people (and thus not executed as a legal deed - s1 Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1989) then it could merely act as a license and not be enforcable against future owners. Seanymph - I think your statement may be wrong!

Ultimately, when you purchased this property I would have thought that it should have been dealt with by your solicitor with pre-requisite enquiries.

These are my thoughts on the matter and I am not a solicitor!

Hope everything is sorted amicably

GlynD

Yorkie1 wrote: »

GlynD, what is your authority for saying that if neither set of deeds show the right of access, there is nevertheless a right of access with which the OP must comply?

As Pete 1968 has kindly shown there are manifold examples under English Common Law where rights of way are established. A simple one is the continued unchallenged use of the access for more than 12 months (I think is the right period).

tyllwyd

stuart_faust wrote: »

The dog area is about 30ft long and i cant afford to do that.
the fence would have to be 6ft high and then would block any light coming into my living room and kitchen window.

Does it have to be a solid fence? Would railings on the top part do?

Would it be an option for you to give them access across the far end of your garden, effectively creating a path along the back and making your garden a few feet shorter? I think it would be very difficult for them to argue that that was unreasonable.

evansmummy

Speaking from the other side, we live in an inner mill terrace and the new end terrace owner has decided to be an akward bugg** and fence it off even though it's stated in the deeds that access is allowed at all times. I have had a disagreement with her about it but unless I contact a solicitor and pay for the priviledge there's not a great deal I can do about it. So she's getting away with it, as these people generally do. To be quite honest we're moving now anyway so I'm past caring.
Anyway, just because it isn't in your deeds it doesn't mean they don't have it in theirs so you might have a problem on your hands.

Desperado99

And from the other side - We live in an end-terrace and the middle definately do not have ROW through our garden. In fact, we wouldn't have bought it if there was.

Just because it's a terrace, doesn't mean that there is automatically a ROW. The neighbours need to prove it.

princeofpounds

I have to back up Yorkie's question on the advice GlynD is giving...

Whilst there might be many good reasons why the neighbour could or should have access rights, that has no bearing on whether they actually DO have any.

And common law is not based on 'common sense'. Many common law judgements have been reached on such ground but many more have been totally counter-intutive.

If there are no grounds, in the deeds or via an easement then they have no right. Just caving in without establishing the situation would be pointless.