Building Regulations/ Survey Advice

str1784

Hi,

I'm new to the site and after some advice from anyone in the know about building regulations and surveys.

Me and my partner are first time buyers and have seen a property we are keen to put an offer in for. The only issue we have is that there has been building work done on the house.

A wall has been knocked out to open up the stairs. It was a supporting wall that supports an upstairs wall. The wall has been replaced by a single wooden beam. We've notice a few cracks have started to appear on the upstairs wall.

We got in contact with the seller to see if the work had passed the building regulations. They got back to us and said that they had no record of any work done and there's no certificates.

Being first time buyers we are not really looking to take on a house with major work needed on it and with money being tight we would rather not waste it on a full building survey, only to find out the work needs doing and to pull out.

I know its hard to tell without seeing it, but does anyone with the knowledge have any idea if a single wooden beam would be substantial enough to pass the survey or would it need to be replaced? Below is a link to a picture of it to give you a better idea (can't post a proper link due to being a new user)

img98.imageshack.us/img98/6576/woodstreet.jpg

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

G_M

How wide is the gap being suported?
What is the weight above?
What are the dimensions of the beam?
What type of wood is the beam
etc etc

Impossible to say - you need a structural engineer (NOT a surveyor).

No Buildings Regs and obvious cracking? 2nd thoughts - you don't need a structural engineer!

Doozergirl

Are you sure that's a structural wall? It's a bit hard to tell with one tiny photo, but where it would have been is very close to the main side of the house (ie. the other side of the staircase) to serve much purpose to bridge spans etc.

My first is that it isn't structural.

str1784

I'm sorry, i'm not overly clued up on what is classed as a "structural wall" The beam supports the wall of the upstairs back bedroom its also the same wall that is at the back on the build in wardrobe of the front bedroom (which is wear the cracks appear) here a link to the floor plan, excuse the poor quality of the picture. The top one is the downstairs plan and the one below is upstairs.

img808.imageshack.us/img808/5609/floorplano.jpg

jc808

Was looking at a house in Maidstone

Seller: 'Yeah, as you can see the cellars been converted, they dug down and created a room'
Me: 'OK, good, have you got tickets for it'
Seller: '?'
Me: 'Building regs, for the new room. If you dug down was a new slab poured? Did you breach the foundations and have to underpin? Was the cellar tanked?'
Seller: 'Er, dunno mate, it was er... here when I got here'

Walked away. I would accept in your case that you will need a survey or possibly a structural engineer in

Doozergirl

str1784 wrote: »

I'm sorry, i'm not overly clued up on what is classed as a "structural wall" The beam supports the wall of the upstairs back bedroom its also the same wall that is at the back on the build in wardrobe of the front bedroom (which is wear the cracks appear) here a link to the floor plan, excuse the poor quality of the picture. The top one is the downstairs plan and the one below is upstairs.

img808.imageshack.us/img808/5609/floorplano.jpg

Well the floor plan is entirely different to what I was expecting! I had no idea that the door would be in the middle of the house but the fact that the house is narrow from front door to back, then I still wouldn't expect it to be a very important wall for structural integrity.

This is what surveys are for. They are to find problems that allow you to negotiate and know what you are taking on for the future. Panicking that something is wrong with one house but then walking off to find another one that you think looks fine and saving money on the survey isn't the right thing to do.

Supporting a just a wall above is a lot different to supporting joists for a floor or transferring the weight of the structure and roof to the ground. Supporting just the wall of the room above is unlikely to be a problem. Cracks are not unusual in any house. Houses move, plaster blows. Running up and down stairs heavily will put pressure on joints and can easily cause cracks in the areas around.

Even if it is a fully structural wall, the work to rectify it isn't really that frightening. The open plan layout to that staircase isn't really necessary so the wall could be reinstated or a proper RSJ inserted. Less expensive than you might think. If you know about it, then you can do something about it.

Really, if you don't want to fork out for a full survey yet (hmm), then you could pay a structural engineer for an hour of their time to come and look at it. You won't get a report but they'll tell you if it's a problem or not and what the remedy is likely to be. It will probably cost you about £75 plus the VAT. If it is an issue, then you can renegotiate with the vendors. But you're not looking at the rest of the house. A survey should be matter of course, it's a huge investment and the idea that you save money by not having one is such a myth. They usually end up paying for themselves.

str1784

Thanks Doozergirl, Obviously if we were to go through with putting in a bid that got accepted we would get a full survey done. We were just hoping that if it was an obvious problem that would get picked up on, we could save ourselves the money and the time in getting to that stage and move on to other properties. From your advice it seems it may not be a obvious issue and it may be worth going further with the property.
As for the door being on the side. the property original had the door coming into the front with a hallway, but the hallway wall has been knocked through to open up the living room and the doorway bricked up.

poppysarah

str1784 wrote: »

We were just hoping that if it was an obvious problem that would get picked up on, we could save ourselves the money and the time in getting to that stage and move on to other properties.
.

Why not go and view some more properties and then go back and do a second viewing?

There is NO rush to buy a house - it's a huge financial committment.

G_M

str1784 wrote: »

Thanks Doozergirl, Obviously if we were to go through with putting in a bid that got accepted we would get a full survey done. We were just hoping that if it was an obvious problem that would get picked up on, we could save ourselves the money and the time in getting to that stage and move on to other properties. From your advice it seems it may not be a obvious issue and it may be worth going further with the property.
As for the door being on the side. the property original had the door coming into the front with a hallway, but the hallway wall has been knocked through to open up the living room and the doorway bricked up.

As several of us have said, a surveyor is not the same as a structural engineer.

str1784

poppysarah wrote: »

Why not go and view some more properties and then go back and do a second viewing?

There is NO rush to buy a house - it's a huge financial committment.

We've been viewing houses for the last 6 months with no real luck, we've had two viewing on this property and are really keen on it, everything else is perfect for what we need, i.e size, location, price range. Its just this one issue that was putting us off.

DVardysShadow

str1784 wrote: »

We've been viewing houses for the last 6 months with no real luck, we've had two viewing on this property and are really keen on it, everything else is perfect for what we need, i.e size, location, price range. Its just this one issue that was putting us off.

Then spend the money on a professional opinion. It is always a gamble. But as I see it the gamble is buying the property. The professional opinion reduces the risks of the gamble. If it costs £1000 to get an opinion and it comes back that there is a major problem, then you benefit by walking away getting on with the rest of your lives. If it comes back OK, you benefit by moving in and getting on with the rest of your lives. It seems well worth the money as a gamble on putting an end to the house search.

My guess is that the beam is supporting a stud wall [plasterboard on a light frame] rather than a brick wall. But the other concern would be whether it is supporting joists for the floor above