Tenant left-council seeking overpayments back

vukuk

Hi, the story is long but hope someone give me a usefull advice:

i am the landlord who rented the property to the LHA (DSS) tenant.
In February 2011, the Council stopped paying the rent as allegedly my tenant vacated the property in September 2010 and according to them I did not inform them of the change. They asked me to repay them back the rent (recovery of the rent overpayment).I challenged this decision as soon as I received the notice as I know my tenant has never vacated the property.

The Council asked me to provide evidence that she lived in the property which I did. They also asked that my tenant write to them and confirm this, which she did both via email and signed letter. This was dragging on and on for months, from February 2011 to May 2011 when eventually I served the notice of property repossession to my tenant. She acknowledged via email that she was going to vacate the property by 22 May and she did.

In June 2011 I received another letter in which Enfield Council is seeking a recovery of the overpayment. I believe I am entitled for the rent I was paid, as the tenant entitled for the housing benefit lived in my property. I have number of documents that proves this. In addition, I believe I am entitled for the compensation for the period between Feb 2011 – 22 May 2011, which is the period I was waiting for the issue to be resolved.

The Council believes that my tenant has lived somewhere else and that I was unlawfully receiving her housing benefit. They say they have evidence of this but they will not present them to me. I am confident that my tenant lived in my place, but obviously cannot confirm if she committed benefit fraud by claiming housing benefit for two different places.I have told the housing benefit officers that they have failed to control their client as well as to inform me of this on time.
My tenant has now vacated the property. She does not reply to my calls or letters and I have no information about her whereabouts.

Who is right in this case? It is my word and evidence that I have against the council's evidence? Can I win this case?

taxsaver

I would think that if it went to court and you have the evidence that you have then, if justice is served, you will. If it were to go to court then they would have to disclose their evidence under court rules so it's nonsense that they are not doing so.

If it were me I would right a formal letter disputing their claim and counter-claiming for the missing rent, holding them liable due to maladministration and giving them 14 days to pay. Send it recorded delivery.

After that time I think i would force the issue by issuing a small claims summons. Better to be the one controlling than reacting in my view.

vukuk

taxsaver wrote: »

I would think that if it went to court and you have the evidence that you have then, if justice is served, you will. If it were to go to court then they would have to disclose their evidence under court rules so it's nonsense that they are not doing so.

If it were me I would right a formal letter disputing their claim and counter-claiming for the missing rent, holding them liable due to maladministration and giving them 14 days to pay. Send it recorded delivery.

After that time I think i would force the issue by issuing a small claims summons. Better to be the one controlling than reacting in my view.

thanks.
i know I haven't done any fraud, or at least to my knowledge. Funny enough, all I wanted is to help this young woman with a kid, who came crying and asking for acommodation....silly me! I have formally objected to the Council claim, but they (the Council) claim that the law is at their side. Whay do you mean by issuing 'a small claims summons'?

bris

I have been through this a couple of times, lucky for me it was only a couple of weeks on both occasions, but I lost both appeals.
As far as the council are concerened the tenant can't stay in two places at the same time, if they have evidence that she was living elsewhere then they will insist that you were not entitled to the housing benefit. The fact you didn't know she was not there will make no difference to them, as far as they are concerened you should know who is in your property.
If the tenant was getting the LHA direct (doubtful as then she wouldn't have paid you) they can't ask you to pay it back, if you were getting it direct, then you will have a fight on your hands to keep it.

I also don't think you are correct when you said they failed to control their client, it's not their client it's yours, they only look after who gets benifit, they don't house them, you do.

I hope it all works out for you, but this is the pitfalls of LHA tenants and you need to know the risks when you take them on.

Hump

The HB regs changed a few years back to mean that the Council can only pursue the landlord if they consider the landlord was complicit in defrauding them i.e. you knew the tenant wasn't living there and you didn't tell them. Otherwise they now have to chase the tenant. Someone more uptodate with HB regs on this forum should be able to quote 'chapter and verse' (don't get me wrong, previously the Council could go after both the landlord and tenant in these circumstances).

See here http://www.cpag.org.uk/cro/wrb/wrb193/housing_benefit.htm#rec-a

The_Pixi

vukuk wrote: »

Funny enough, all I wanted is to help this young woman with a kid

Why not let her live there rent free? if your intentions are a selfless as you are presenting them. Then there would be no problem with the council.

taxsaver

It was a comment, albeit with a question contained therein.

As far as being nice to other users, then perhaps you should refrain from sniping.... the OP came across to me as perfectly genuine and did not deserve your comment/question and please do not try to feign innocence! *rolls eyes*

vukuk

bris wrote: »

I have been through this a couple of times, lucky for me it was only a couple of weeks on both occasions, but I lost both appeals.
As far as the council are concerened the tenant can't stay in two places at the same time, if they have evidence that she was living elsewhere then they will insist that you were not entitled to the housing benefit. The fact you didn't know she was not there will make no difference to them, as far as they are concerened you should know who is in your property.
If the tenant was getting the LHA direct (doubtful as then she wouldn't have paid you) they can't ask you to pay it back, if you were getting it direct, then you will have a fight on your hands to keep it.

I also don't think you are correct when you said they failed to control their client, it's not their client it's yours, they only look after who gets benifit, they don't house them, you do.

I hope it all works out for you, but this is the pitfalls of LHA tenants and you need to know the risks when you take them on.

thanks for this. I didn't know she was claiming hb elsewhere. The council officer told me. What i know is that she lived in my property and never left it. I also have evidence (as much as i can have). When i said they failed to control their client, I meant they failed to control where was the money going to. How was I supposed to know there might be something wrong, as I was getting regular payments at the time. But thanks anyway, what you've just said is exactly what the council says. It is not right that cheats can just disappear and i am sure continue claiming benefits elsewhere (in her case she moved to another city). These people should be stopped. I am sure I won;t offer my place to DSS tenant any more.

As far as I’m concerned the council are just trying to house as many people as possible without taking any responsibility of the aftercare which is required once a tenant has been housed. Providing shelter alone isn’t good enough; the entire chain needs support there on after.

vukuk

taxsaver wrote: »

It was a comment, albeit with a question contained therein.

As far as being nice to other users, then perhaps you should refrain from sniping.... the OP came across to me as perfectly genuine and did not deserve your comment/question and please do not try to feign innocence! *rolls eyes*

thanks 'taxsaver'. I am sure 'pixie' had no bad intention.

The_Pixi

taxsaver wrote: »

It was a comment, albeit with a question contained therein.

As far as being nice to other users, then perhaps you should refrain from sniping.... the OP came across to me as perfectly genuine and did not deserve your comment/question and please do not try to feign innocence! *rolls eyes*

It was a question.

Feign innocence? Of what.. Asking a question. Dear me, well I think my question is perfectly reasonable and does not deserve your remarks.

Now be nice, or maybe you should take your attitude elsewhere.

vukuk

The_Pixi wrote: »

Why not let her live there rent free? if your intentions are a selfless as you are presenting them. Then there would be no problem with the council.

Pixi, apart from being cheeky, do you know anyone living for free?
thanks for taking part in this, but if you can't be of any help, please spare me of your cheekiness!!