Coveyance and rights of way query

dizzydonkeys

Hi, can anyone expain a section of some title deeds to me in laymans terms please?
Have downloaded deeds of a property next door to a property I am interested in buying, there is a supposedly shared drive that EA says is a grey area, apparently next door house says they own but 'our' house has access on foot only but not really as they are just allowing it.
The neighbours also own an outhouse in the corner of 'our' garden.
We have no issue with not having access over the land really but would just like to know what all the blurb means.
Obviously if we did put an offer in we would get the solicitors to check things out properly and explain it but guess I'd like as much detail as possible before getting to that stage.

The land has the benefit of the following rights
granted by but is subject to the following rights reserved by a
Conveyance of the land in this title and other land dated ("TOGETHER with the right for the Purchaser and his successors in
title his and their tenants families servants visitors workmen
invitees and licencees (in common with the Vendors and all others
now or hereafter to become entitled to the like right so far as
the Vendors can lawfully grant the same) at all times over and
along the paths coloured yellow on the plan to and from the
property first hereinbefore described from and to (i) the property
secondly hereinbefore described and (ii) the property thirdly
hereinbefore described subject to the Purchaser and his successors
in title paying a fair proportion of the future cost of
maintaining and repairing the said paths coloured yellow and also
the right to use the drains sewers gas and water pipes and
electric mains and cables spouts gutters and gullies fall pipes
and all other matters and things under over and in so much of the
said larger plot of land conveyed to the Vendors
..................................................................
.......
as is retained by the Vendors (hereinafter referred to as the said
adjoining property of the Vendors) as are used jointly by and
between the property hereby conveyed and the said adjoining
property of the Vendors,
EXCEPTING AND RESERVING unto the Vendors and their successors in
title his her and their tenants families servants visitors workmen
invitees and licencees and their present and future grantees the
right to use the drains sewers gas and water pipes and electric
mains and cables spouts gutters gullies fall pipes and all other
matters and things over under and in the property hereby conveyed
as are used jointly by and between the property hereby Conveyed
and the said adjoining property of the Vendors AND SUBJECT ALSO to
the following conditions namely - that the walls dividing cottage
number two on the said plan from cottage number three marked
thereon and the water closets marked number one and number two on
the North West side of the washhouse number two and between the
said washhouse number two and the adjoining building of the
Vendors on the North East side thereof on the said plan shall be
mesne or party walls and shall be maintained and repaired
accordingly and the Purchasers shall bear a proportion based on
the rateable value of the properties using the same of the future
cost of maintaining and repairing the said drains sewers gas and
water pipes and electric mains and cables spouts gutters gullies
fall pipes and all other matters and things used jointly by and
between the properties hereby conveyed and the said adjoining
Page 2 of 3
A: Property Register continued
property of the Vendors and together also with the Benefit of but
SUBJECT TO the rights of way water light and drainage
..................................................................
.......
so far as the same relate to and affect the properties hereby
Conveyed and are still subsisting and capable of taking effect"
NOTE 1: The land firstly, secondly and thirdly described referred
to above are edged red, edged blue and edged green respectively on
the Conveyance plan

Have removed personal details hence some bits not making sense

Richard_Webster

Don't know where properties firstly secondly and thirdly described are so can't give definite view but someone seems to have a right to use the path coloured yellow!

dizzydonkeys

Hi Richard,

Basically the drive is the yellow bit, and the owners of the next door property (of which this title relates to) is in red.

The owners of this title say that it states on their deeds they own the drive (yellow) and full rights to it and do not have to allow access at any point - would I be correct in thinking that this totally contradicts that?

As say if place an offer I will get it properly checked out but thought doing some homework myself before hand would be beneficial.

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond :beer:

t0rt0ise

I see a nice neighbour dispute coming up.. I'd run away.

DVardysShadow

If these are the deeds for the property next to the one you are buying, it appears that they have rights over the yellow bit, but they do not own it, at least not on the strength of this title.

Be careful. The fact that they don't own it on the strength of this title disguises the possibility that the land in question may not be part of the one you are looking to buy - which then opens the possibility that next door have a possible claim on it arising from their use of it. The important point is whether the land is included on the title of the one you are looking to buy.

I would say you are doing the right thing with your research and you may need to jump a few hurdles to get this sorted. Before you go to far, decide what you think is a reasonable or acceptable outcome and whether it is feasible. It may be that the sellers need to renegotiate something and pay for whatever they need to do to resolve the situation. So be it. Don't go into this thinking it will be alright or you could live with it - make sure that you come away with something which you can sell without going through all of the same issues as seller. Conveyancing is getting tighter over this sort of issue - and it is far better to get it sorted while you are buyer and can walk away than in 15 years when the issue might be a complete showstopper.

Richard_Webster

It could well be that the neighbour does own the drive and cannot understand that others could have rights over it. However without seeing all the paperwork I would not want to be definite on that point.

Your solicitor needs to look at all the details.

However, in many ways far more important is the point raised above that it may not be a good idea to buy a property next door to someone who is being difficult, regardless of the legalities of the situation.

dizzydonkeys

Thanks guys, house is cheap (for what it is) due to a death, the neighbours wanted to buy it but don't have the funds and had been trying to buy it for 2 yrs apparently but never actually handed over any money so relatives obviously put it onto open market.
According to current owners of the property when neighbours bought their house they actually assumed they were buying the whole plot so their house (with tiny garden) the house I am interested in and it's land (huge garden of a good half acre) hence now sulking as that isn't what they got and are not in a position to buy it all now.
Thanks again for all your help will sleep on it for a few days and decide from there if worth investigating.

Skint_Catt

t0rt0ise wrote: »

I see a nice neighbour dispute coming up.. I'd run away.

My first thought too! If the neighbours are sulking now....:eek:

G_M

What does the Title to the property you wish to buy say about the drive?

It appears that the Title you've shown us (next door's) prmits access along the drive (yellow) but not ownership (though Have you looked at the Plan for next door's Title?

Check the Plan for your property. Is the drive included? Is there a Conveyance giving YOU access?

If the drive does not show up as owned by either property (ie is not on the Plan for either Title) then speak to the land Registry and ask for the Title number/details for the drive - it may be owned by a 3rd party.

But I echo others - are you really wanting to buy your way into a protracted land dispute, and do you want to live next to someone who you start out by taking to court?

DVardysShadow

dizzydonkeys wrote: »

According to current owners of the property when neighbours bought their house they actually assumed they were buying the whole plot so their house (with tiny garden) the house I am interested in and it's land (huge garden of a good half acre) hence now sulking as that isn't what they got and are not in a position to buy it all now.

That sounds like a tall tale! If it is a tall tale, you have problems with your vendor. If it is true, you have problems with the neighbour. In your position, I would think on this too - and probably speak to the neighbour to get their take on the matter. There was a house we were looking at buying with issues like this - and talking with the neighbour illuminated the situation no end - we could have lived there happily with the neighbour, it was a catalogue of unresolved issues, which could easily be resolved in the main, although we decided against for other reasons.