Student Loan 2015 Discussion

arsenalbarnie

Lokolo wrote: »

But if you look at the calculator there is very little difference (actually no difference until you reach higher earners) between £7.5k and £9k fees and what's paid back.

He's right. It isn't going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things, unless you are a high earner.
Is this bidding process for these 20,000 places just for this year?
Also don't universities state that they need the full £9000 fees pa per student to break even or have I got that wrong. If they do doesn't that mean we may see some going to the wall eventually by undercharging?

Lokolo

arsenalbarnie wrote: »

He's right. It isn't going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things, unless you are a high earner.
Is this bidding process for these 20,000 places just for this year?
Also don't universities state that they need the full £9000 fees pa per student to break even or have I got that wrong. If they do doesn't that mean we may see some going to the wall eventually by undercharging?

It depends on the university. I know my course costs a lot to run, but obviously there are others which won't cost as much.

I would have most probably said it costs £9k/£10k to break even, but it will obviously depend on the individual university. The costs of buildings in London compared with Stoke-on-Trent for example will make a huge difference to the balance sheet!

But yes, if the universities don't charge enough then they could fail.... which is a little sad.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11940832

My university is on there.

I still don't know why universities don't have companies sponsor courses, although it's a bit American to do so, it would help support and keep them alive.

arsenalbarnie

Lokolo wrote: »

It depends on the university. I know my course costs a lot to run, but obviously there are others which won't cost as much.

I would have most probably said it costs £9k/£10k to break even, but it will obviously depend on the individual university. The costs of buildings in London compared with Stoke-on-Trent for example will make a huge difference to the balance sheet!

But yes, if the universities don't charge enough then they could fail.... which is a little sad.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11940832

My university is on there.

I still don't know why universities don't have companies sponsor courses, although it's a bit American to do so, it would help support and keep them alive.

It is worrying and sad that this may happen, although not everyone would agree as some think there are too many but not me. If universities close like the article says, it's the knock on effect it has to the local economy. Our local uni is on that list too. I know if it closes our family will be affected drastically, but we will carry on somehow. There are a lot of other businesses that would suffer more though and go to the wall.

Oldernotwiser

tyllwyd wrote: »

Yes, it does matter if you want to stop making student loan repayments out of your salary. If I said to you, would you rather pay me x per cent of your income for 20 years, or x per cent of your income for 30 years, everything else being equal, which would you choose?

But you said,

"If you have any hope of paying off the loan before the 30 years are up, you are going to have a better chance of achieving that if the initial fees are lower."

so my comment was in reference to whether it mattered if the loan was repaid at the end of 30 years or just written off.

tyllwyd

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But you said,

"If you have any hope of paying off the loan before the 30 years are up, you are going to have a better chance of achieving that if the initial fees are lower."

so my comment was in reference to whether it mattered if the loan was repaid at the end of 30 years or just written off.

OK, we were at cross-purposes - I'm not worried about whether the loan is paid off or written off, but considering that the monthly repayments are going to be the same, you have to agree that if you can get rid of the loan earlier than the 30 year deadline, that means you pay less in total.

Whether or not fees of £7.5K are low enough for you to manage to do that is another question completely. But no matter what, someone who choses a university based on £7.5K fees against £9K fees - assuming they have exactly the same career and earnings afterwards - won't ever pay back more by going for the lower fees, and may pay less.

Oldernotwiser

tyllwyd wrote: »

But no matter what, someone who choses a university based on £7.5K fees against £9K fees - assuming they have exactly the same career and earnings afterwards - won't ever pay back more by going for the lower fees, and may pay less.

That's a pretty big assumption though, don't you think?

Although I could see it could be the tiebreaker for an indecisive student, it really isn't a very good reason for choosing a university, in my opinion.

tyllwyd

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

That's a pretty big assumption though, don't you think?

Although I could see it could be the tiebreaker for an indecisive student, it really isn't a very good reason for choosing a university, in my opinion.

But what other assumption can they make? I was thinking about myself and friends who all went to the same university (not Oxbridge, but 1994 group). I'm working part-time, and earning about 20K, another is earning 40K, another is a housewife and not earning, another was earning well over £100K but has recently been made redundant - there must be a huge variation in career paths and lifetime earnings, even for graduates from the same course, so how on earth can you take that into account when you are a potential student choosing between two different universities?

I agree that purely financial reasons are not the best way to chose a university, but the present government has deliberately introduced a financial factor, so it has to be part of the overall picture.

kbrumann

tyllwyd wrote: »

I agree that purely financial reasons are not the best way to chose a university, but the present government has deliberately introduced a financial factor, so it has to be part of the overall picture.

There are very good universities in France, the Netherlands, Germany and Austria where university fees are only about €1000 per year.

Lokolo

tyllwyd wrote: »

But what other assumption can they make? I was thinking about myself and friends who all went to the same university (not Oxbridge, but 1994 group). I'm working part-time, and earning about 20K, another is earning 40K, another is a housewife and not earning, another was earning well over £100K but has recently been made redundant - there must be a huge variation in career paths and lifetime earnings, even for graduates from the same course, so how on earth can you take that into account when you are a potential student choosing between two different universities?

I agree that purely financial reasons are not the best way to chose a university, but the present government has deliberately introduced a financial factor, so it has to be part of the overall picture.

Although I see your point I don't see it as being a significant factor - although I would consider it.

I guess it depends on the individual. If they are undecided by 2 universities, love them both and would happily go to either - then fees would be part of the process, but when I was looking there was only 1 I wanted to go to (I looked at 6). The same for my friends, even though they had backup universities, they wanted to go to the first one.

It will be interesting to see how university numbers change depending on the fees they charge though.

arsenalbarnie

Lokolo wrote: »

Although I see your point I don't see it as being a significant factor - although I would consider it.

I guess it depends on the individual. If they are undecided by 2 universities, love them both and would happily go to either - then fees would be part of the process, but when I was looking there was only 1 I wanted to go to (I looked at 6). The same for my friends, even though they had backup universities, they wanted to go to the first one.

It will be interesting to see how university numbers change depending on the fees they charge though.

I agree. Also I think it's the parents who are more concerned about the fees. I know a lot of teenagers having five of my own to start with. They don't seem to be that bothered. We tried getting ours to look at going to uni in Europe but apart from one they want to stay here. (two already at uni although in Wales so technically another country )

I think they are more concerned with what the place is like, the 'feel' of it etc., courses on offer. One of mine was outlined as an Oxbridge candidate, we went to look round and he said he wouldn't want to go
there even if it was free, it just wasn't for him. I think at 17 when they do their applications, it's a big decision to take when so much else is going on.

No 3 in our family says he will take a year or two out before deciding and I hope he does. I keep telling him what's the rush, no 1 and no 2 now wish they had left it a bit both have changed courses slightly.