Student Loan 2015 Discussion

Dustykitten

setmefree2 wrote: »

Oldernotwiser have you any idea what things cost these days? A packet of Bic biros costs £5.10. A4 paper costs £2 to £3. A jar of coffee is £5, a tube of toothpaste £3 .....
:cool:

I don't know where you shop but these prices are high. Aquafresh toothpaste is £1 a tube and a tube will last the 5 of us a good month. How many pens are you buying for £5.10 and why go for Bic? We are talking about students here cutting cloth accordingly.

I think most students can find time to work, finding a job is another thing. In the states people have done 2 or 3 jobs for years to pay their way through college. Lots of people here, especially those with small businesses work a good 50 hour week.

Now I don't like the sound of the new system at all but we have to be realistic.

I have two friends who's sons have not settled to their 1st years this year, one has dropped out, the other wants to start again at another uni. I think that what is needed is a really good hard look at what a degree gives to the student and the future employer and a full acceptance that uni is not for everybody, is not necessary for everybody and that does not make them a failure.

Oldernotwiser

DaveO wrote: »

Given the Russell group of Universites discourage taking a job and the workload on many degrees is high enough to make this impossible to combine with study (most sciences and especially medicine , vetenary science and dentistry) you are making a very I'll informed and simplistic generalisation.

I went to Aberystwyth years ago to study Compuer Science and the work load was high but also the town is small. Too small to give all the students a nice little job even if they had time to do it.

So the person you replied to was right. The means tested loans will mean families on relatively low incomes will be forced to contribute and in some cases I am sure they won't be able to afford it.

What this means is the constant mantra of you only pay it back afterwards and so there is no up front cost is complete hogwash for most people and the new funding regime will discourage people from going.

There are certainly degrees like medicine where it's very difficult to take a part time job but there are very few universities that positively forbid it.

Are you really saying that middle income families would have to remortgage to give their offspring £20 per week, because that was what was being suggested?

Doubtless many people will be discouraged from taking up university places but that situation isn't helped by the sort of scaremongering that's been going on recently.

Oldernotwiser

setmefree2 wrote: »

Oldernotwiser have you any idea what things cost these days? A packet of Bic biros costs £5.10. A4 paper costs £2 to £3. A jar of coffee is £5, a tube of toothpaste £3 .....
:cool:

The £20 I mentioned was in addition to the £20 that was left over after paying for accommodation and would obviously involve budgeting.

The prices you quote are ridiculously high; Tesco sells a jar of coffee for 47p, toothpaste for 50p and biros for £1.60 and, of course, these are things you don't buy every week.

You really don't seem to have got to grips with the MSE philosophy at grass roots level!

2sides2everystory

ONW I have lurked around this thread today but are you really still banging on about twenty quid a week being peanuts in your estimation?

I am beginning to wonder whether you are representative of any kind of middle ground. I haven't time to hunt back, but did you not tell us last week or the week before that you are a retired careers adviser? Have you got one of those gold plate pensions which kind of clouds your judgement on the real world?

Did you not hear today that one in five of all households in the UK is termed to be in "fuel poverty" which I think means that they find themselves obliged to spend over 10% of their net household income simply on energy costs?

Do you really imagine that £80 per month is not significant ? I have met people who do not bring home more than ten times that each month. They have overdrafts they continually blunder into, they have unexpected motor expenses because they cannot afford decent cars. Some have mortgages at the moment but are scared what will happen when the bank base rate rises, others are experiencing rent increases in a buoyant rental market. They are coffee shop baristas, airline cabin crew who have to spend 10% of their take home on commuting, sandwich makers, shop assistants who don't hold a job on a minimum wage long enough to be given shares and bonuses, and in any event their zero hours contracts probably disbar them from participating in anything that keeps the bank account healthy. The country has hoards of such people now.

And you also suggest that 50p toothpaste is moneysaving? Would that shift the stains from whatever is in the 47p coffee jar? Hmm ...

Get (more) real please with your estimates of real people's economies and tastes .

Oldernotwiser

2sides2everystory wrote: »

ONW I have lurked around this thread today but are you really still banging on about twenty quid a week being peanuts in your estimation?

I am beginning to wonder whether you are representative of any kind of middle ground. I haven't time to hunt back, but did you not tell us last week or the week before that you are a retired careers adviser? Have you got one of those gold plate pensions which kind of clouds your judgement on the real world?

Did you not hear today that one in five of all households in the UK is termed to be in "fuel poverty" which I think means that they find themselves obliged to spend over 10% of their net household income simply on energy costs?

Do you really imagine that £80 per month is not significant ? I have met people who do not bring home more than ten times that each month. They have overdrafts they continually blunder into, they have unexpected motor expenses because they cannot afford decent cars. Some have mortgages at the moment but are scared what will happen when the bank base rate rises, others are experiencing rent increases in a buoyant rental market. They are coffee shop baristas, airline cabin crew who have to spend 10% of their take home on commuting, sandwich makers, shop assistants who don't hold a job on a minimum wage long enough to be given shares and bonuses, and in any event their zero hours contracts probably disbar them from participating in anything that keeps the bank account healthy. The country has hoards of such people now.

And you also suggest that 50p toothpaste is moneysaving? Would that shift the stains from whatever is in the 47p coffee jar? Hmm ...

Get (more) real please with your estimates of real people's economies and tastes .

I certainly don't think that £20 per week is peanuts but neither do I think it's an amount that would necessitate remortgaging as was suggested in the post I replied to.

We were also not discussing a low income family but one where the household income was around £40,000. The children of the people you describe would receive at least £2,000 pa more in funding than the example I was talking about. Apart from anything else, the student will have been costing their family far more than this before they went to university so an allowance of £20 will leave the family better off.

As far as my pension is concerned, you may not have noticed but Careers Advisers have been outside the public sector for 30 years, as have their pensions.

If people living on benefits and working for a low income buy Tesco own brand coffee and toothpaste, I see no reason why students shouldn't as well, do you?

Char_pdc

DaveO wrote: »

Given the Russell group of Universites discourage taking a job and the workload on many degrees is high enough to make this impossible to combine with study (most sciences and especially medicine , vetenary science and dentistry) you are making a very I'll informed and simplistic generalisation.

I wasn't aware that the Russell group discouraged students from working?

I attended a Russell group university, doing a science degree and had a part-time job working at a sport's ground. During the long holidays I picked up extra shifts and also had an additional summer job. To be honest I quite enjoyed it as a bit of break from studying...I couldn't work efficiently for 12 hours a day.

Some of my friends doing science, medicine, dentistry or physio degrees had part-time jobs, although others did not because they wanted to study instead. There wasn't really any difference in grades between the people who had jobs and the people who didn't.

Saying that I was/am based in London, so there were lots of job opportunities around. But there are other things around, like tutoring which I would do if I could at the moment.

2sides2everystory

ONW wrote:

As far as my pension is concerned, you may not have noticed but Careers Advisers have been outside the public sector for 30 years, as have their pensions.

Sorry to second guess your provenance ONW ... that'll teach me :doh:

As I think I said a while back, I don't think I ever saw a careers adviser - and clearly I have no idea where they fitted in in the last 30 years

So, a £40,000 a year family eh? With what, a £100K mortgage perhaps? £20 a week = £1000 a year = a 1% rise in the mortgage rate. Well, I am sure by Summer 2012 we will have got sick of those and many parents of students will all wish they could remortgage by then

But as a general rule, I do still worry about 50p toothpaste and 47p coffee though ... that surely cannot be a good mix / :lipsrseal

setmefree2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You must surely have come across the concept of being overqualified before.

Suppose you suddenly weren't able to be an accountant any more - do you really think that you would be McDonald's or Tesco's first choice as an entry level employee?

So you are telling me that a third of students do a degree and after 3 years of (presumably) hard work they are then overqualified to do most jobs and end up earning vastly less than they would have done if they had never gone to Uni!!!!

That is scandalous.

(By the way, I'm sure I could convince somone at McDonald's or Tesco's to give me a job and I would have no problem starting again at the botom and working my way up )

setmefree2

Dustykitten wrote: »

I don't know where you shop but these prices are high. Aquafresh toothpaste is £1 a tube and a tube will last the 5 of us a good month. How many pens are you buying for £5.10 and why go for Bic? We are talking about students here cutting cloth accordingly.

I think most students can find time to work, finding a job is another thing. In the states people have done 2 or 3 jobs for years to pay their way through college. Lots of people here, especially those with small businesses work a good 50 hour week.

We live in London. We shop in Boots and WH Smiths - the pens are a pack of 10. And Bic are the only Biro worth buying imho. The rest are rubbish.

My point stands - £20 buys you very little these days :-)

setmefree2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

The £20 I mentioned was in addition to the £20 that was left over after paying for accommodation and would obviously involve budgeting.

The prices you quote are ridiculously high; Tesco sells a jar of coffee for 47p, toothpaste for 50p and biros for £1.60 and, of course, these are things you don't buy every week.

You really don't seem to have got to grips with the MSE philosophy at grass roots level!

I wouldn't expect my son to drink 47p coffee!!! Does that even have any coffee in it? And what are the ethics behind a 47p jar of coffee for heavens sake. How does anyone grow, harvest, provide a glass jar and transport coffee for 47p ????

I wouldn't want/expect my son to use toothpaste that cost 50p. That is a false economy. Teeth need looking after. Dental bills are expensive.

£1.60 biros are rubbish!