Orange, DD, Bank, Fraud, Police? Where to go Please.

PasturesNew

GDB2222 wrote: »

You have two choices:
1. Forget it, just make sure the bank refunds you and no more DDs are set up, or
2. Involve the Police and let them deal with Orange

I'd go for option 1. Also, get the bank to change the account number.

I'll go with 1 then. Trouble is, this is an octogenarian's account - so it causes anxiety that this has happened and whether it'll happen again. It'd have been nice to have proper closure of the occurrence, knowing that ID fraud had/hadn't taken place and what'd gone wrong to cause the DD to come out of the account.

Fretting .... and it seems to consume every minute of every day, discussing the scant details they know - and going over reasons/etc about who/what/why/when etc.

These are people who would get an orange for Xmas and think all their Xmases had come at once, not sophisticated users of modern technology and banking systems.

Forwandert

PasturesNew wrote: »

I specifically and clearly asked this question at the bank - and was told "No, that's for you to do".

She absolutely said it is US that would have to involve the police.

Thats right, (i know its not the OP's bank account but I'm using the term OP just to make it easier)

The OP has been basically a victim of some sort of identity theft, the bank has not had its's identity stolen, you need to ensure you report this to the police as soon as possible incase the details used have been used for anything else.

wealdroam

OP, of course it is entirely up to the account holder, but if there is a current account sitting there with money in it and not being used, perhaps this could/should be moved to a savings account earning a bit more.

Also, savings accounts generally do not allow Direct Debits or Standing Orders to be set up on them.

Again, forgive me for digressing.

Valli

D'you know this is what REALLY hacks me off about banks - the assumption that the account holders are up-to-date with technology and everything...

Why ON EARTH did the bank NOT think there was something wrong when an account which had NEVER had a DD suddenly had one.

Having said that OP the fact that 'you' had the 'small' initial DD could have been a test purchase - and Barclays, with their sophisticated systems - could have picked it up THEN.

So blooming unco-operative and unhelpful. The distress banks cause to those who just cannot, or don't know how to, fight back is legion. I'm glad the account holder has such a tenacious ally in you PasturesNew

John_Pierpoint

If the fraud is less than 500 quid it does not exist as far as the old bill are concerned.
The world's favourite crime was making such a mess of our crime statistics and scrambling Mr Plod's brain, that something had to be done.
Problem was handed backs to the banks, and they don't like to admit that their systems have holes.
O2 will get a "charge back" and be left holding the baby but they are only selling a few pence of electricity anyway, so they will regard it as a hazard of being in business.
The down side is that this account and card will have it's security tightened up and will bounce when used on the internet, abroad or in (say) a train ticket machine.

As it had taken 2 months to identify the fraud, the account holder may be on a "suckers" list.

Do the old folks own their own home, mortgage free?
The rest of us have had to pay out millions to compensate people who have had their houses stolen.
(I hope the Land Registry has realised the danger of automated systems now and put more checks in place and mortgages are now harder to get)

Essentially the house ownership got transferred by submitting some transactions to the Land Registry, then it got mortgaged to the hilt, then six months later a surveyor was sent to find out why the payments were not being kept up on the mortgage.

Bit of a nasty shock for the occupants.

PasturesNew

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

If the fraud is less than 500 quid it does not exist as far as the old bill are concerned.
The world's favourite crime was making such a mess of our crime statistics and scrambling Mr Plod's brain, that something had to be done.
Problem was handed backs to the banks, and they don't like to admit that their systems have holes.
O2 will get a "charge back" and be left holding the baby but they are only selling a few pence of electricity anyway, so they will regard it as a hazard of being in business.
The down side is that this account and card will have it's security tightened up and will bounce when used on the internet, abroad or in (say) a train ticket machine.

As it had taken 2 months to identify the fraud, the account holder may be on a "suckers" list.

Do the old folks own their own home, mortgage free?
The rest of us have had to pay out millions to compensate people who have had their houses stolen.
(I hope the Land Registry has realised the danger of automated systems now and put more checks in place and mortgages are now harder to get)

Essentially the house ownership got transferred by submitting some transactions to the Land Registry, then it got mortgaged to the hilt, then six months later a surveyor was sent to find out why the payments were not being kept up on the mortgage.

Bit of a nasty shock for the occupants.

LOL/suckers list

OK ... great. So now you've put the wind up me about the house being secretly mortgaged because yes .... it is bought and paid for. It's never had a mortgage on it.

So I've gone from "looks like an error ..." to "OMG I'm losing my inheritance"



For now, my immediate plan of action - and plan of action going forward - is to follow Option 1 above (do nothing) ... and watch the incoming monthly statements. I doubt the account holder will close or change the account, change doesn't come easily when you're older.

I won't check the house.... I'll assume it's safe. And as I live in it too .... I'll be aware of bailiffs and give them a piece of my mind.

Daisy_doo_3

I think I would write to Orange advising and asking them to investigate (then minds can be put to rest) and I think i'd ring the non-urgent police line at least get it registered.

You could also get a check to make sure there is nothing else - somewhere like Experian. Someone else may be able to give you some help on where. I think you need to check this is the only thing and not anything more serious. Hope you get it sorted. The person is very lucky to have someone that cares and is helping them with this problem.

morag1202

Might be an idea to get a credit check on the 'old' to see if anything else shows up.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/loans/credit-rating-credit-score

Annisele

You could get a protective registration with CIFAS. That's not very MSE - it costs £12 + VAT per year - and it can make it a real PITA to actually get credit/open accounts. However, the point is that it's also a PITA for anybody else to get credit in your name.

Personally I wouldn't bother - but if the "fretting" really is consuming every minute of every day, it might be worthwhile in this case.

John_Pierpoint

A small section of a report in The Economist in 2005:

Telecoms firms have always suffered heavily from fraud, which is thought
to reduce industry revenues by around 5%. But new software that
identifies fraudulent callers on mobile networks is helping some
operators slash their losses. Telecom Italia's 140 anti-fraud engineers
trimmed losses this year to less than 1% by freezing about 30,000 phones
a month, says anti-fraud director Fabio Scarpelli.

Such spectacular drops in fraud are more commonplace in the developing
world, where mobile operators now investing in the technology. David
Ronen, of ECtel, a firm based in Rosh Ha'ayin, Israel, with more than
100 telecoms clients and galloping growth in poor countries, says his
firm's software establishes the normal calling patterns of individuals
in order to detect tell-tale “weird situations”. For example, if a
mobile account opened in Shanghai, and sparingly used for local calls,
begins making numerous calls from Beijing to a few numbers in a distant
western province, then it is likely that a phone thief is calling
friends back home.

Fair Isaac, a large fraud-detection firm based in Minneapolis, operates
a system so fast that it can block dialled calls before they are even
connected. The software, called Falcon, is widely used, since laws
prevent many telecoms firms from terminating non-prepaid calls once they
are connected. Wily criminals are increasingly operating black-market
phoning businesses based in parks and on street corners. “You may see 30
people with cell phones on one corner and one guy is dialling all the
numbers for them,” says Ted Crooks of Fair Isaac. The calls, often to
expensive destinations in poor countries, sometimes last days, Mr Crooks
says, because cheats use forwarding systems to serve many customers with
a single call. Technology that can pinpoint handsets' locations,
however, allows calls in “hot” areas renowned for such illicit
operations to be blocked.