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Debate House Prices


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BOE in rate shocker

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Comments

  • DervProf
    DervProf Posts: 4,035 Forumite
    edited 10 June 2011 at 6:41PM
    Joeskeppi wrote: »
    Doesn't really make sense though, a rich person may have more debt but also more assets.

    Your example was more debt and no assets whatsoever.

    My example was very simple, to make the point clear. It wasn't about if's and maybe's.

    Let's go back to what I replied to, the USA being the richest country in the world. If all the countries in the world paid off their debts, would the USA still be the richest ? I don't know the answer to this, maybe someone could enlighten me. I have a feeling they might not be.
    30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.
  • chucky
    chucky Posts: 15,170 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Joeskeppi wrote: »
    Doesn't really make sense though, a rich person may have more debt but also more assets.

    Your example was more debt and no assets whatsoever.
    of course it doesn't make sense - dervprof cherry picks what he wants and it has to be his way and anything else is irrelevant.

    i wouldn't bother trying to educate him either, it's a complete waste of time.
  • Kohoutek
    Kohoutek Posts: 2,861 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    DervProf wrote: »
    If all the countries in the world paid off their debts, would the USA still be the richest ? I don't know the answer to this, maybe someone could enlighten me. I have a feeling they might not be.

    If countries tried to literally pay off all their government debt, then most people in that country wouldn't feel very rich, because the government would have to raise taxes and cut public spending.
  • Really2
    Really2 Posts: 12,397 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 10 June 2011 at 6:17PM
    DervProf wrote: »
    "The more you earn, the more you borrow" ?

    Is that the rule ?

    I would have thought that the way to be rich is to earn more, and borrow less.

    I think you might be trying to say "the more you borrow, the more you earn". If you are, my reply would be "if you invest your borrowed money wisely (and with a bit of luck)".

    No the more you earn the more you can borrow? Your example of a £1m mortgage needs a very high wage to get that size of mortgage.

    How can the more you borrow the more you earn work??? it's not logic I cant get my self in debt up to my eyes to get a better job?
  • DervProf
    DervProf Posts: 4,035 Forumite
    Really2 wrote: »
    No the more you earn the more you can borrow? Your example of a £1m mortgage needs a very high wage to get that size of mortgage.

    How can the more you borrow the more you earn work??? it's not logic I cant get my self in debt up to my eyes to get a better job?

    You might not be able to, but an entrepeneur could.
    30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.
  • DervProf
    DervProf Posts: 4,035 Forumite
    chucky wrote: »
    of course it doesn't make sense - dervprof cherry picks what he wants and it has to be his way and anything else is irrelevant.

    i wouldn't bother trying to educate him either, it's a complete waste of time.

    Another brilliant addition to the discussion by chucky.

    Other folk are at least disagreeing or arguing against my comments, you revert to your default.... insults.
    30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.
  • DervProf
    DervProf Posts: 4,035 Forumite
    Really2 wrote: »
    No the more you earn the more you can borrow? Your example of a £1m mortgage needs a very high wage to get that size of mortgage.

    OK. It is true, the more you earn, the more you can borrow.

    Fred earns £200K, borrows £1million.

    Joe earns £10K, borrows £50k.

    Neither have any money saved before they borrow the money. For the purpose of this example, both buy a house for the amount they borrow. Who is the richest person ?

    Another example. Man Utd are supposed to be the richest club in the UK. They may have the largest income, but what if you balance their books ? What if you sell their assets, and settle their debts. How much would you be left with ?

    To me, being "rich" means that you have your own money in your own bank account. Or you have assets that you own, that you can sell. Having a pile of debt means that your "richness" might not be as it appears.
    30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Derv, debt is wealth. Accept it, or understand you need "educating".

    However, you can sit there and smile when those suggesting debt is good, are actively going round stating they are overpaying, in the aim of being debt free.

    What's actually meant is debt is good if it's seen as a pyramid scheme, and others taking on larger debts behind you can increase your wealth.
  • Kohoutek
    Kohoutek Posts: 2,861 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    DervProf wrote: »
    Fred earns £200K, borrows £1million.

    Joe earns £10K, borrows £50k.

    Neither have any money saved before they borrow the money. For the purpose of this example, both buy a house for the amount they borrow. Who is the richest person ?

    Well...in this contrived example they both have net assets of zero in financial terms, but one of them has a £1,000,000 house and presumably is in no danger of defaulting on his mortgage. Don't you think that the right to own and occupy a £1,000,000 house is a form of wealth?
    DervProf wrote: »
    Another example. Man Utd are supposed to be the richest club in the UK. They may have the largest income, but what if you balance their books ? What if you sell their assets, and settle their debts. How much would you be left with ?

    What do you mean balance their books? I thought their books were balanced - Manchester United aren't insolvent.
  • DervProf
    DervProf Posts: 4,035 Forumite
    Kohoutek wrote: »
    Well...in this contrived example they both have net assets of zero in financial terms, but one of them has a £1,000,000 house and presumably is in no danger of defaulting on his mortgage. Don't you think that the right to own and occupy a £1,000,000 house is a form of wealth?

    It is a form of wealth, but what is the value of the wealth ? How rich is the person that lives in the house ?
    What do you mean balance their books? I thought their books were balanced - Manchester United aren't insolvent.
    They may not be insolvent, but if the owners sell the club, how rich will they be ? Very rich, if someone is willing to take on the club's debts, not so rich if they aren't.
    30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.
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