Car Purchase- Where do we and car Sales stand here? pls help!

Flyboy152

davidmaiden18183 wrote: »

in which case I think i need to use this to challenge them
if what you say is true I think they are in breach of the terms and conditions of the contract and
1. they cant tells us we have to give them the car as part of the sale
2.they cant sell our vehicle
3. they would struggle to hold the deposit if they have broken terms.


is that right?

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Not as cut and dried. If they agree to the implied variance of terms, they can retain losses incurred in cancellation. If, however, they do not agree, then have have breached the contract and have to return your deposit, should you decide to cancel.

davidmaiden18183

Flyboy152 wrote: »

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Not as cut and dried. If they agree to the implied variance of terms, they can retain losses incurred in cancellation. If, however, they do not agree, then have have breached the contract and have to return your deposit, should you decide to cancel.

in which case i hope we would then be able to purchase the car outright. unless they get funny about it.

not that I am questioning your responses,but how sure are you on these matters paritcularly the verbal agreement and where I stand with that.

I am not questioning your knowledge or credetials but something to give me confidence would be good as I am going to go at them with this and at present is is only one person saying it and its more opinion than hard fact that I can see.

Flyboy152

The veracity of verbally agreed contracts have been an established convention in law for centuries. Just google it and you will find a plethora of information relating to verbal contracts.

davidmaiden18183

this is a draft of the email i will be sending them, what do you think?

F.A.O. EXXX & CXXXXX


From Mrs MXXXX Maiden & Mr DXXXX Maiden in regards to Vauxhall Corsa VU10XXX


This email is to confirm that we are not willing to give you the Vauxhall Astra as part of the sale. We have sought advice from a solicitor, and have spoken to our local car sale dealership for an inside view of what is acceptable on your part. We have also have a 55 post discussion on a UK consumer rights internet forum, naming Arnold Clark which has had over 520 views in less than 24 hours has already.

In regards to our agreement, we reiterate that we asked, before signing the agreement if it was possible that we could choose between then and collection whether to purchase the Corsa as an outright purchase (effectively by paying the part exchange value of the car) and not offer the car as part exchange. We can all put testimony to the fact that CXXXX asked EXXX if this was acceptable and the response was “Yes that is fine”, and this form part of the terms and conditions of the agreement. I am informed that a verbal agreement has as much force as a written one regardless of this being documented – we have 4 testimonies to what was agreed. Also the fact that Christina was going to amend the paperwork to a purchase without the part exchange on first contact yesterday afternoon clearly shows she was in acceptance of what had been agreed.


To put it simply Arnold Clark can not tell us we have to give the car as part of the sale as this is a breach of the conditions and contract we agreed.

a) As for our vehicle which you apparently sold, this remains OUR property until we complete the purchase of the new vehicle. Arnold Clark DO NOT own the vehicle or have any entitlement to it until that time. We are fully entitled if we should choose so to refuse the purchase of the Corsa and retain the Astra should we see fit.

b) As far as Arnold Clark’s apparent sale of what is OUR property, we believe you are entitled to offer it for sale and in some respects take a deposit for it but this should ONLY by with number of conditions including if the car is no longer for sale or is significantly not as described etc. Selling a car not owned IS doing so is at Arnold Clarks’ risk. I am told by EXXX that it is not possible for Arnold Clark to back out of that deal with the potential buyer; regardless of what Arnold Clark’s stance on this matter with all due respect this is not Arnold Clark’s issue and not ours, or relevant to our contract as a) is true.

We advise you consider this matter further, and you should be contacting the person(s) you have ‘agreed’ to purchase the Astra and state that Arnold Clark are not able to provide them with the provide a vehicle they do not and will not OWN i.e. point a) and because of as part of the conditions of that agreement. Also we would insist that Arnold Clark honour our verbal agreement that formed our terms of the agreement that were accepted in front of 4 witnesses.

We plan to collect the vehicle tomorrow and pay in full as agreed was possible.

We look forward to your response, however if the response is not acceptable we make a formal complaint to Customer services department in Glasgow and if required take this further with the Retail Motor industry Federation and Trading Standards.



Regards

MXXXXX and DXXXX

Forwandert

I can't see any mention of requiring the deposit back if Arnold clark are unwilling to keep to the verbally agreed price without the px.

davidmaiden18183

Forwandert wrote: »

I can't see any mention of requiring the deposit back if Arnold clark are unwilling to keep to the verbally agreed price without the px.

I am trying to keep us or them backing out of the deal off topic at present. we just want to proceed the sale as agreed. if we still get no where we can consider intimating backing out of the deal - which then bring all the arguments of what happens with the deposit.

if needs be must we can threat to pull out of the deal in which case they may stake a claim on the deposit.


my mum has also part of the purchase agreed and had them fit a parking sensor - so I fear this makes its unlikely we will be able to challenge them on the deposit, I'm guessing they may even be able to sue or bill us for that work

Flyboy152

davidmaiden18183 wrote: »

this is a draft of the email i will be sending them, what do you think?

First of all I would hastily delete personal details from your post. The people mentioned have not given their permission for you to name them.

F.A.O. Exxx CXXXX & Cxxxxxxx JXXXXX


From Mrs Margaret Maiden & Mr David in regards to Vauxhall Corsa VU10XXX


This email is to confirm that we are not willing to give you the Vauxhall Astra as part of the sale. We have sought advice from a solicitor, and have spoken to our local car sale dealership for an inside view of what is acceptable on your part. We have also have a 55 post discussion on a UK consumer rights internet forum, naming Arnold Clark which has had over 520 views in less than 24 hours has already.

You can only write this if it is true. I would recommend not including this, another dealer's opinon carries no weight at this stage. Also I would refrain from mentioning this site, it will only their backs up and could cloud the issue.

In regards to our agreement, we reiterate that we asked, before signing the agreement if it was possible that we could choose between then and collection whether to purchase the Corsa as an outright purchase (effectively by paying the part exchange value of the car) and not offer the car as part exchange. We can all put testimony to the fact that Cxxxxxxx asked Exxx if this was acceptable and the response was “Yes that is fine”, and this form part of the terms and conditions of the agreement. I am informed that a verbal agreement has as much force as a written one regardless of this being documented – we have 4 testimonies to what was agreed. Also the fact that Cxxxxxxx was going to amend the paperwork to a purchase without the part exchange on first contact yesterday afternoon clearly shows she was in acceptance of what had been agreed.

To put it simply Arnold Clark can not tell us we have to give the car as part of the sale as this is a breach of the conditions and contract we agreed.

a) As for our vehicle which you apparently sold, this remains OUR property until we complete the purchase of the new vehicle. Arnold Clark DO NOT own the vehicle or have any entitlement to it until that time. We are fully entitled if we should choose so to refuse the purchase of the Corsa and retain the Astra should we see fit.

b) As far as Arnold Clark’s apparent sale of what is OUR property, we believe you are entitled to offer it for sale and in some respects take a deposit for it but this should ONLY by with number of conditions including if the car is no longer for sale or is significantly not as described etc. Selling a car not owned IS doing so is at Arnold Clarks’ risk. I am told by Exxx that it is not possible for Arnold Clark to back out of that deal with the potential buyer; regardless of what Arnold Clark’s stance on this matter with all due respect this is [STRIKE]not [/STRIKE]Arnold Clark’s issue and not ours, or relevant to our contract as a) is true.

We advise you consider this matter further, [STRIKE]and you should be contacting the person(s) you have ‘agreed’ to purchase the Astra and state that Arnold Clark are not able to provide them with the provide a vehicle they do not and will not OWN i.e. point a) and because of as part of the conditions of that agreement.[/STRIKE] This is irrelvant to your case, what they do with their customer is up to them. Also we would insist that Arnold Clark honour our verbal agreement that formed our terms of the agreement that were accepted in front of 4 witnesses.

We plan to collect the vehicle tomorrow and pay in full as agreed was possible.

If we do not receive a satisfactory outcome, we will consider the contract breached and therefore canceled and will insist on a return of our deposit.

We look forward to your response, [STRIKE]however if the response is not acceptable we make a formal complaint to Customer services department in Glasgow and if required take this further with the Retail Motor industry Federation and Trading Standards[/STRIKE].



Regards

Margaret and David Maiden

The RMF will not do anything and Arnold Clark know this, they have little, if none, jurisdiction over this. Trading standards is a forward step for you, but there is also the choice of the small claims court. However, making threats like this is, at this stage, is never a good tactic. It tends to make them dig their heels in, rather than worry them. Certainly, if they refuse to play ball, then tel thenm that you are prepared t take the matter further with trading standards and the courts.

Flyboy152

davidmaiden18183 wrote: »

I am trying to keep us or them backing out of the deal off topic at present. we just want to proceed the sale as agreed. if we still get no where we can consider intimating backing out of the deal - which then bring all the arguments of what happens with the deposit.

if needs be must we can threat to pull out of the deal in which case they may stake a claim on the deposit.

A little incentive of losing the deal is never a bad thing.

my mum has also part of the purchase agreed and had them fit a parking sensor - so I fear this makes its unlikely we will be able to challenge them on the deposit, I'm guessing they may even be able to sue or bill us for that work

Only if they can't recoup the costs when the vehicle is sold on.

davidmaiden18183

Flyboy152 wrote: »

You can only write this if it is true. I would recommend not including this, another dealer's opinon carries no weight at this stage. Also I would refrain from mentioning this site, it will only their backs up and could cloud the issue.

we haven't spoken to a solicitor, but i have spoken to another garage. I just need to beef up my response as its my consumer rights knowledge against theirs in some respects.

Flyboy152 wrote: »

The RMF will not do anything and Arnold Clark know this, they have little, if none, jurisdiction over this. Trading standards is a forward step for you, but there is also the choice of the small claims court. However, making threats like this is, at this stage, is never a good tactic. It tends to make them dig their heels in, rather than worry them. Certainly, if they refuse to play ball, then tel thenm that you are prepared t take the matter further with trading standards and the courts.

I felt thats what I had done, I am asking them to ply ball, and if they wont I will then raise an official complain with customers service head office for the Arnold Clark Group, and I am then saying if that is not frutful we would then consider RMF and trading standards.

Agree with your edits to remove the bit about their customer.

I am so tempted to say we might have a recording of the vebal agreement but its on my girlfriends phone and she is away from her phone on holiday but we will get it soon.

davidmaiden18183

Flyboy152 wrote: »

Also I would refrain from mentioning this site, it will only their backs up and could cloud the issue.

id like to mention I have discussed it on a Consumer rights forum but perhaps not inflame them with details only how many post views and that they are named within. maybe that would be more appropriate.