Why be angry at scottish power raising energy prices??

grahamc2003

magyar wrote: »

Well, if you have experience in the industry I can only suggest you update your understanding of it.

I called you a liar because you presented as fact that wind farms get subsidies even when they don't operate. This isn't true. A subsidy is something which favours one technology over another, and this mechanism doesn't.

If you're simply mistaken, then it's not up to me to apologise, it's up to you to apologise for accidentally misleading people.

* and by the way, I'm not sure whether you're using the term 'windmill' perjoratively or just mistakenly, but they're wind turbines, not windmills. Windmills grid corn, i.e. they are mills powered by the wind.

You don't even know what cerl was, or have ever heard of the grid design authority have you?

Anyhow, congratulations - I have never been called a liar before over many years of posting on various forums, what a truly objectionable person you must be and I'm in a way embarrassed if you have indeed worked in the esi - i trust it wasn't for national grid (where all the technical expertise went on deregulation) and most likely a supplier. I've explained my view why windmills get subsidised all the time - you are free to disagree if you want. I'll leave the last word to you, perhaps a further attempt to patronise or call me a liar again.

Oh, you also need to explain your view on windmills to 16th and 17th century Dutch artists who painted, and entitled their work with the term 'windmill' for, well, windmills which actually pumped water, and didn't mill anything. I expect you think Rembrant is a liar too for not entitling his 1641 work 'windpowered leather softener' instead of The Windmill. Goodbye.

magyar

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I've explained my view why windmills get subsidised all the time - you are free to disagree if you want. I'll leave the last word to you, perhaps a further attempt to patronise or call me a liar again.

I called you a liar because you told a lie. It's quite simple.

All you have done is present 'views' and not facts. You have made statements as if they were facts and not presented any evidence to back it up (unlike me).

This is nothing to do with whatever technical expertise you may have; I'm sure it's far more than me - I am not and have never claimed to be an engineer. This is simply a question of accurately reporting industry procedures.

Wind farms do not receive subsidies when they are not generating, period. You have no evidence to back that up, nor has the Daily Mail, nor has the Renewable Energy Foundation, nor has anyone else.

gasmanmartin

Healthy debate - Excellent!

Also i would like to throw in that for every £100 you pay your utility company they make £5 profit.

Im angry that prices have gone up but really, what can you do once you've switched apart from use less??

C_Mababejive

norapower wrote: »

Why does no one mention Thatchers role in this mess, Selling all the gas and electricty compaines to overseas buyers. Now the profits all go to Spain France or Germany instead of being paid in the UK. When they were owned by the govenment all the profits were paid to the British taxpayer instead of overseas. If they doubled gas and electricty prices we could do nothing about it.

Thanks Maggie thanks alot, What a terrible legacy she has left

I quite agree but Maggie was only fixing a problem which the Brits whinged about incessantly.

How many times did we hear them whinge about British Gas/British Rail blah blah blah..

Now then,take for instance the mighty British Gas Corporation as was.

It was a national industry owned on behalf of the nation. It was world respected for its expertise,research and development.

It had very high standards in training and technical expertise as well as public safety.

It did lots of stuff for free or subsidised .

For example,
You used to get a free leakage repair service up to 1/2 an hour i think?

You got your gas mains and services laid for free

Pensioners got free gas fire safety checks and heavily subsidised servicing

There were gas showrooms in every town and one point of contact

There was one industry which supplied all the gas and therefore had the power to influence and cut the best deals

They trained engineers to the highest standards so that the whole CORGI and registration thing wasnt even deemed necessary ! It was enough to have been a British Gas Corporation apprentice and there was no registration body

Yep..the Brits get what they deserve.

But as its every man for himself I will state that i only pay £53 pm for gas and electric and i am a shareholder in BG, Centrica,National Grid, VOG and FTO

Oh and ditto for Powergen /Norweb/Manweb..another great engineering institution fixed on behalf of the whinging poms not to mention British Rail...

Who yes,how we would wish ourselves back in those Halcyon days.

Maybe we should have national switch off days to protest or cant we be bothered....?

C_Mababejive

magyar wrote: »

I called you a liar because you told a lie. It's quite simple.

All you have done is present 'views' and not facts. You have made statements as if they were facts and not presented any evidence to back it up (unlike me).

This is nothing to do with whatever technical expertise you may have; I'm sure it's far more than me - I am not and have never claimed to be an engineer. This is simply a question of accurately reporting industry procedures.

Wind farms do not receive subsidies when they are not generating, period. You have no evidence to back that up, nor has the Daily Mail, nor has the Renewable Energy Foundation, nor has anyone else.

On the subject of wind farms,,here is the kind of stupidity that goes on in this fractionated industry...

http://www.ecoseed.org/wind-energy/onshore-wind/article/56-onshore-wind/9649-national-grid-pays-six-scottish-wind-farms-for-unused-electricity

HalloweenJack

magyar wrote: »

I called you a liar because you told a lie. It's quite simple.

All you have done is present 'views' and not facts. You have made statements as if they were facts and not presented any evidence to back it up (unlike me).

This is nothing to do with whatever technical expertise you may have; I'm sure it's far more than me - I am not and have never claimed to be an engineer. This is simply a question of accurately reporting industry procedures.

Wind farms do not receive subsidies when they are not generating, period. You have no evidence to back that up, nor has the Daily Mail, nor has the Renewable Energy Foundation, nor has anyone else.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/meeting_energy/renewable_ener/renew_obs/renew_obs.aspx


they are called RO`s or Renewables Obligation , and are subsidised whether they produce power or not , and wind is not the only tecnology funded in this way


or does the governments OWN link not evidence enough for you?

bikeman

JSR wrote: »

or they actually made a loss, isn't shouted about so loudly.

That's because it never happens!

tomtom50

Hello everybody
This is my first posting on the site
I moved to Scottish Power in Feb 2011 from Eon to save a bit cash which I have done up to now.
I am on an Online Saver 12 tariff with them and I have just received an email from them today with the current tariff rates and the new tariffs from 1st August 2011.
Have a read of this.......

Electric (No standing charge)
First 225 kwh per quarter increased from 17.176p per kwh to 22.492p = 5.316p increase = 30.95% increase.
Further units increased from7.795p per kwh to 10.216p =2.421p = 31.06% increase.

Gas (No standing charge)
First 670kwh per quarter increased from 4.968p per kwh to 7.541p
= 2.573p increase = 51.79% increase
Further units increased from 2.581p per kwh to 3.457p = 0.876p
increase = 33.94%.

I had to read the email a few times to take it in.
They have stated in the email that I can leave my contract at no penalty cost.
I have sent them an email to ask them to ring me to make sure the figures are correct and await their reply.

I thought the increases were to be 10% for electric and 19% for gas ???? There's a rabbit off somewhere.

Anybody else had an email like this today ?

I will keep you posted when they ring me.
Going on holiday on Sunday 19th to Lanzarote so I may be a while updating you but at least I won't be using any gas and leccy.

bikeman

JSR wrote: »

There is no point getting angry about the rising price of fossil fuels.

There's every point! Anger causes politicians to legislate for change. Only by legislation will energy companies look seriously at alternatives to fossil fuels. Without legislation they will dabble at the periphery offering niche 'eco' products that generally cost more.

Look at the car manufacturers they have dragged their heels on electric vehicles for 30 years. Only now as a result of legislation have they all started to take hybrids seriously.

Anger motivates change.

bikeman

Wobblydeb wrote: »

Scottish Power are going to increase the prices on my deal by between 31% (elec) and 52% (gas). I firmly believe that businesses should pass on cost increases. What I cannot abide is them setting up a deal with an exit fee, and then putting in price increases that far exceed the increase in costs they have experienced.

I will not deal with a business that treats its customers so unfairly, so will vote with my feet and not do business with them again.

Hear hear - me too

Many fools here are locking themselves into a scottish power capped rate 6 weeks ahead of the price rise and thus enjoying 6 weeks of a higher tariff! Enjoy your lower rate till 31 july then jump ship.