Getting a deposit returned after completion of a joint tenancy agreement

DVardysShadow

may_fair wrote: »

The fixed term will expire regardless of whether T serves notice or not.

True

may_fair wrote: »

A SPT will arise if T [STRIKE](or one or more of several JTs)[/STRIKE] remains in occupation after fixed term expiry regardless of whether T serves notice or not.

True. My strikethrough.

may_fair wrote: »

A SPT will arise if T (or one or more of several JTs) remains in occupation after fixed term expiry [STRIKE]regardless of whether T serves notice or not.[/STRIKE] if notice has not been served

True. My strikethrough and addition

may_fair wrote: »

A SPT will arise if T (or one or more of several JTs) remains in occupation after fixed term expiry regardless of whether T serves notice or not.

Debateable. It is generally agreed that on a J&S [joint and several] tenancy, it is sufficient for 1 tenant to give notice for the tenancy to come to an end. I can see no sensible argument that this should not apply only at the end of an assured term.

may_fair wrote: »

The fixed term will expire regardless of whether T serves notice or not. A SPT will arise if T (or one or more of several JTs) remains in occupation after fixed term expiry regardless of whether T serves notice or not. T's notice therefore has no legal effect.

Cart before horse. Your 'therefore' is false logic. If you can demonstrate that a single tenant's notice has no effect [if delivered in time and effective at the end of the assured term], you will show that in a J&S tenancy, an SPT will arise if tenants other than the one giving notice remain.

But your argument goes nowhere unless you can show that a single tenant's notice has no effect

may_fair wrote: »

... T's notice cannot prevent a SPT arising unless it is served under a break clause.

You have failed to show that a break clause is required in order to give notice effective at the end of the assured term.

may_fair wrote: »

... In that case, T's notice will end the tenancy under s.5(2)(b) HA1988. But a break clause will invariably require 'the Tenant' to exercise it and in a joint tenancy that means all JTs collectively.

Single tenant in a J&S tenancy can give notice binding on all other tenants - this is generally held to be true. What you are saying is that all tenants must be party to notice if given under a break clause. I think that in itself is a moot point, although if you don't get the reason why a single tenant can give notice for all tenants outwith the assured term, you won't see why it is likely to be the case that a single tenant can give effective notice under a break clause.

But if a single tenant gives notice effective at the end of the assured term, and does it without using a break clause, then it will be effective for all tenants.

You are failing to make the distinction between date of service and effective date of notice. I would agree that a notice with an effective date within the assured term requires a break clause. But you are totally failing to show that notice served within the assured term requires any break clause whatsoever for an effective date at the end of the assured term.

BitterAndTwisted

Chev_Chelios wrote: »

The fixed term began on 16th July 2010 for one year. I don't believe that the agreement specifies an end date (apologies, I am asking for this advice on someone else's behalf) but 15th July 2011 is the assumed end date by the tenant wishing to leave and they will have vacated the room by then. The tenant has informed the Letting agent of her attention to leave and has also informed all of the utility companies and local council. She has asked the letting agent to perform the final inventory check and 'walk around' by this point so that she can receive her deposit back and complete any other formalities. The rent is paid monthly. Thanks for your help.

Your friend's fixed-term will end on 15th of July. Please have your friend give notice IN WRITING before the 16th of this month if they haven't done so already.

In your friend's position I would send one copy each to the agent and the landlord sending both letters by first-class post and retaining proof-of-postage for both.

Chev_Chelios_2

Thanks very much for your time and help BitterAndTwisted. I will be sure that your advice is acted upon.

may_fair

jjlandlord wrote: »

That's a good point.
Usually we focus on the fact that no notice is required to end the tenancy at the end of the fixed term, and on the fact that if the tenant does nothing the tenancy will automatically become periodic.

But indeed section (2)(b) can be interpreted in a way such that an "action of the part of the tenant" will prevent the periodic tenancy from arising.

Yes, the action is vacating. If T vacates at fixed term expiry, a periodic tenancy will not arise.

G_M

If may_fair is right, the OP is powerless to end the tenancy and thus continues to be jointly liable for rent whether he moves out or not (assuming his co-tenant remains).
If may_fair is wrong, then his Notice is binding on both tenants and the tenancy ends with the fixed term (July 15th). The remaining 'tenant' (+ any new T) would then need to agree a new tenancy with the LL.

My advice would be
1) Speak to the LL/agent and and reach an amicable agreement about move out, tenancy termination and deposit return.

2) Give written notice that the tenancy will end on 15th July and you will be vacating, would like a check-out inspection, and look forward to receiving your deposit. Add a note that you understand your co-tenant may wish to create a new tenancy and perhaps the landlord/agent could contact him to discuss this. This formalises the situation (even though may_fair may be right in that notice has no effect during the fixed term, and that the tenancy continues as Periodic if co-tenant remains)