Getting a deposit returned after completion of a joint tenancy agreement

Chev_Chelios_2

Hi,

I would appreciate advice from someone with knowledge of tenancy agreements. If a joint tenancy is being fulfilled up to it's pre-agreed end date and after this one of the tenants wishes to move out and another wishes to remain with another new tenant filling the vacant room does the tenant moving out have to wait for the new tenant to pay their deposit before the letting agent is obliged to re-pay their original deposit?

Thanks in advance.

may_fair

Chev_Chelios wrote: »

Hi,

I would appreciate advice from someone with knowledge of tenancy agreements. If a joint tenancy is being fulfilled up to it's pre-agreed end date and after this one of the tenants wishes to move out and another wishes to remain with another new tenant filling the vacant room does the tenant moving out have to wait for the new tenant to pay their deposit before the letting agent is obliged to re-pay their original deposit?

No, if the existing joint tenancy ends, then the LL must refund the whole deposit to the joint tenants collectively. Absolutely no connection to any subsequent tenancy.

However, the joint tenancy won't end if only one of the joint tenants vacates. The existing JTs and LL must agree a surrender before the LL may grant a new joint tenancy to the new JTs (i.e. the tenant who wants to stay + the person who wants to move in).

Chev_Chelios_2

Thank you so much for your help.

theartfullodger

It appears tenancy has ended the initial fixed term and is now in periodic, month-by-month, rolling on.. so...

Err... no (I hesitate to disagree with May Fair..) . Surely if one JT gives valid notice to quit then that ends the tenancy for all JTs. see

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/joint_tenancies

Can one joint tenant end the whole tenancy?

The rules on how and when a tenancy can be ended depend on whether the tenancy is fixed-term (ie for a set period of time) or periodic (ie rolling from week to week or month to month). See the section on ending a tenancy for more information. If you're thinking about leaving, be sure to discuss it with the other joint tenant(s) before you take any action.

If you have a fixed-term tenancy the tenancy cannot be ended early unless all of the joint tenants agree and either:

• your landlord agrees that the tenancy can end early (this is called a ‘surrender’), or
• there is a ‘break clause’ in your tenancy agreement, which allows you to give notice and leave early.

If you have a periodic tenancy, or the fixed-term has ended and your tenancy has not been renewed, one tenant can end the whole tenancy and does not need the agreement of the other joint tenants. However, the landlord must be given a valid written notice and there are special rules about how and when this must be done.

I'd suggest doing any ending etc. with agreement & involvement of all parties and in writing to ensure everyone happy & clear...

Cheers!

Artful

G_M

That was my understanding too, Artful. However, forgetting for a minute the issue of a 'new' tenant moving in, what happens where one of 2 joint tenants gives notice and moves out on the last day of a fixed term, and the other stays? What is the status of the remaining tenant?

Chev_Chelios_2

theartfullodger wrote: »

It appears tenancy has ended the initial fixed term and is now in periodic, month-by-month, rolling on.. so...

Err... no (I hesitate to disagree with May Fair..) . Surely if one JT gives valid notice to quit then that ends the tenancy for all JTs. see


I'd suggest doing any ending etc. with agreement & involvement of all parties and in writing to ensure everyone happy & clear...

Cheers!

Artful

Thanks Artful. The LL or managing agent in this instance is trying to make out that the new tenant is a replacement for the leaving tenant despite the fact that the original tenancy agreement will be completed by both the original tenants. He is refusing to give the deposit back until the new tenant has paid their deposit. How can he do this though as these will be two completely separate tenancy agreements?

BitterAndTwisted

The agent is making stuff up as they go along. This is not unknown: letting agents need no specialist training or knowledge of the LL&T legislation.

If you are the leaving tenant I would WRITE to the agent and the landlord giving formal notice and mention that as the current tenancy agreement is ending you would like them to do a check-out inspection so that your deposit can be returned.

Should a new tenancy be negotiated with the old and a new tenant, a new tenancy agreement will need to be signed and a new deposit taken.

Do not let them dissuade you from this course of action.

may_fair

theartfullodger wrote: »

It appears tenancy has ended the initial fixed term and is now in periodic, month-by-month, rolling on.. so...

Err... no (I hesitate to disagree with May Fair..) . Surely if one JT gives valid notice to quit then that ends the tenancy for all JTs.

Yes, if the tenancy is periodic, but I interpreted " If a joint tenancy is being fulfilled up to its pre-agreed end date" as meaning up to fixed term expiry. I may have interpreted it incorrectly.

may_fair

G_M wrote: »

...what happens where one of 2 joint tenants gives notice and moves out on the last day of a fixed term, and the other stays? What is the status of the remaining tenant?

The joint tenancy becomes periodic because 'the tenant' (i.e. both JTs together) has not vacated. Both JTs continue to be tenants.

Edit: And T cannot serve notice within the fixed term unless there's a break clause. A break clause in a joint tenancy would usually require both JTs to exercise it.

may_fair

@Chev, please can you tell us:

Date fixed term began (dd/mm/yy)
Length of fixed term (and whether it specifies an 'end' date)
Has anyone served notice (LL or T)? If so, please give details
When does T who wants to leave intend to move out?
Is rent payable monthly/weekly?

DVardysShadow

may_fair wrote: »

The joint tenancy becomes periodic because 'the tenant' (i.e. both JTs together) has not vacated. Both JTs continue to be tenants.

Edit: And T cannot serve notice within the fixed term unless there's a break clause. A break clause in a joint tenancy would usually require both JTs to exercise it.

If one tenant just vacates at the end of the assured term, wothout giving notice, I would agree. But if one gives notice, correctly, for the end of the assured term, then the other tenant is in the same situation as if they had stayed after notice had been given by the first some time into a periodic tenancy.

As I see it, it does not require a break clause for a tenant to serve notice within the fixed term to take effect at the end of the fixed term