Complete deposit retention. Is it fair?

nigem

Hmm. After my son wrote and pointed out that the flat was in no worse condition than at the start of his tenancy, the agent has emailed back to say that is it is a joint tenancy. This means that they are all liable. However, they all signed a new contract last December, and there was no new inventory.
He has now emailed back, after contacting the others, to state that the condition of the flat hadn't changed in the last 6 months. Therefore they wish to dispute any deduction jointly.
There was no lead tenant stated on their contract, and I am now wondering if the change in tenants was notified to the TDS.

Do you think a lead tenant is necessary? I cant find anthing on the TDS site about that.

may_fair

nigem wrote: »

The tenancy commenced on 4/12/10. He and the other 2 tenants all signed again on that day.

If the contract says that the fixed term commences on 4th December 2010, then it's a new tenancy and the old inventory for the previous tenancy has no relevance.

I am now wondering if the change in tenants was notified to the TDS.

If it's a new tenancy, with different tenants to before, and not a case of re-assigning positions on the old tenancy, then new protection for the new tenancy would be required (but deposit protection is kind of irrelevant - the only difference being that if it is protected, there's possibly the option of using their adjudication service).

nigem

I am really not sure if the agent is correct, or is being very awkward.

• My son has an AST document commencing 4/12/10 as a joint tenancy with 2 others, for a period of 6 months.
• He has another piece of paper, separately written, that he has taken over the previous tenants room, and has paid an initial holding deposit.
• Despite asking twice, the agent has not given the reference no for the TDS. He said that it was given at the start of the tenancy (july 2010). The other 2 tenants do not still have the information, or it may have been with the putgoing tenant.
• He has said in todays email 'No agency or landlord would expect tenants to vacate the premises and perform move out and move in inspections each time they wanted to re-sign their contract.'
• He also left it til this evening to inform him that the TDS need to be informed by 21st June

The email states that he has no basis for a deposit dispute even though he has told the agent he wishes to raise a dispute.
I guess he needs to ring TDS tomorrow, I hope he can get the info from them, or indeed that he can still do it.
Can anyone see anything else that he can do?

atush

"A bit late now, but what he should have done is withhold the last month's rent to net off against his deposit. A month isn't long enough for him to have been thrown out. This is what I've done with each of my rented houses, both at uni and privately."

Boy, am I gald i didn't rent to you or with you. That is absolutely awful behaviour on your part. And I am not a LL. What awful advice to give someone.

nigem

Not sure what the last post has to do with my sons situation. He has paid all the rent!
Urgent now to know his rights as the agent wont accept any dispute after today

BitterAndTwisted

The agent can do or threaten whatever he likes. The important part is to insist IN WRITING that as there was no inventory when the new contract was signed, the previous inventory cannot and should not be relied upon as documentary evidence of any dirt or damage caused during your son's tenancy. They should claim the whole of the deposit back from the scheme and dispute any deductions the landlord proposes to make on that basis. Then, let the scheme's arbitrators make their decision.

nigem

I have just managed to speak to TDS. A very helpful lady managed to find the reference no, and said that they now have 6 months to raise a dispute, from the end of tenancy.
I feel that there may be a chance of a fair adjudication, and not a unilateral one from the agent. My son is emailing the Agent to inform him. I am hoping that will be a good record in writing.
Thanks for all your help. I will update when he knows more.
Nigem

BitterAndTwisted

The landlord is in a very weak position and they have been put in it through the mismanagement of their agent. There should have been a new inventory even if it was just a signed and dated acknowledgement of the old one by the three new tenants. But that's the landlord's problem not yours.

Please have your son send a letter by first-class post. email is NOT an appropriate form of communication for something this important!

princeofpounds

My son is emailing the Agent to inform him. I am hoping that will be a good record in writing.

Emails are not writing.

Your son should be communicating with the landlord, as that is the person responsible for the deposit and all deductions. The agent is a mere messenger.

When you go to adjudication remember that the lack of an inventory does not mean deductions cannot be made, but it is very much harder as deductions require some kind of evidence.

Madsy11

Good luck Nigem - here's hoping that the TDS sort this out for you.

He has said in todays email 'No agency or landlord would expect tenants to vacate the premises and perform move out and move in inspections each time they wanted to re-sign their contract.'
And that is fair enough, I would not expect to have to do an inventory for a contract renewal or extension. However if the previous contract came to an end and a new contract was issued, regardless of who the new tenants are they should have done a new inventory and made any deductions from the 'previous' tenants, although some remained.

It might be useful if your son has any of the original paperwork from when he moved in - breakdown of the agent's fees, invoices from the agents etc and see whether that says 'new contract' and whatnot.

Oh, and if they try to made deductions for cleaning/redecorating ask to see proof the work was carried out. Not just a quote for the work, actual proof. In my experience the agents will say this work is necessary, charge for it then not take any action. This has happened to me at least twice - the last place I moved out of 'required carpets cleaning' which was fair enough, however I know this didn't happen. Equally when I moved into my new place it was supposed to have had a 'professional clean' for which the LL was charged and this was certainly not completed as the previous T's beard shavings were still in the bathroom. Eurgh.

Best of luck! We all learn from experience