Complete deposit retention. Is it fair?

Eton_Rifle

theChimbles wrote: »

A bit late now, but what he should have done is withhold the last month's rent to net off against his deposit. A month isn't long enough for him to have been thrown out. This is what I've done with each of my rented houses, both at uni and privately.

I'm so tired of shady tenants getting away with this.
In the US, it's standard to pay your first and last month's rent up front, along with the security deposit and I wish this was standard in the UK too.

I've had this done twice to me now. The first time I let go because the house was immaculate but the second time was a blatant attempt to avoid paying for damages. I tracked them down, sued them and won. They ended up paying more than they ever would have done if they'd been honourable people.

G_M

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

I'm so tired of shady tenants getting away with this.
In the US, it's standard to pay your first and last month's rent up front, along with the security deposit and I wish this was standard in the UK too.

I've had this done twice to me now. The first time I let go because the house was immaculate but the second time was a blatant attempt to avoid paying for damages. I tracked them down, sued them and won. They ended up paying more than they ever would have done if they'd been honourable people.

Once it's happened to you once, you learn. Which is why most LLs ask for more than one months rent as a deposit. Many would like to take 2 months rent as a deposit but a) fear the 'it's a premium' rule and b) tenants can't afford it.

Tenants complain they have to find a huge amount of cash at the start of their tenancy (deposit, agency fees, credit check, 1st month rent), but it's the habit by some tenants to treat the deposit as rent at the end of the tenancy, leaving the LL with only the courts to get damage compensation, that leads to this cycle.

nigem

It appears to be a joint tenancy.
The original end date was 3.7.11 but it was shortened to 3.6.11 when he moved in.
He said he was given a copy of an inventory which wasnt signed but just said that he had 7 days to object. It was probably the original inventory, not one done on his moving in.

G_M

nigem wrote: »

It appears to be a joint tenancy.
The original end date was 3.7.11 but it was shortened to 3.6.11 when he moved in.
He said he was given a copy of an inventory which wasnt signed but just said that he had 7 days to object. It was probably the original inventory, not one done on his moving in.

So on January 4th you son and the other two tenants all signed a 6 month tenancy?

And there was an inventory at that point. 1) Did any of the 3 sign it? 2) Did it accurately describe the flat?

As the tenancy was a joint one, the 3 of them are considered as a single legal entity (joint and several responsibility). So if there was damage and/or rent owing when the tenancy ended (Note, NOT when he moved out) then the LL can use the deposit to cover the costs.

Your son might be able to claim his share of the deposit from the other two tenants - that is a separate issue to the relationship with the LL.

However, the LL can only use the deposit to cover genuine damage, so he has to be able to show that the condition of the property, or contents, was worse at the end than at the beginning. Hence the importance of an agreed (signed!) inventory. Without this, the LL cannot prove the condition at the start was better than at the end.

The LL can also claim the rent owed by the tenants (jointly), so again, any dispute resulting from your son leaving early is between him and the other tenants.

nigem

Here's an update.
It appears that when my son moved in, there was no new inventory done. It seems that the date on the one that the agent is using as comparison was july 2010, 5 months before he moved in.
He has proof that he wasnt supplied with keys.
He has delivered a letter to the agents, disputing that most problems can be his responsibility and asking for itemised invoices for redecorating and cleaning.
Is there anything else he can do?

G_M

You have still not really answered the Qs asked by several of us earlier, however I shall assume (PLEASE correct):

* Your son signed a 6 month (please confirm) joint tenancy, which is dated January 4th 2011 (please confirm), expired on 3/6/11 (having been amended by mutual agreement from 3/7/11), and which was signed by your son and 2 other joint tenants?

* No inventory was provided/agreed at the time of this contract.

Therefore the inventory dated July 10th 2010 cannot be used in connection with this tenancy. The landlord can therefore not prove that the property was not in a similar state when the tenancy started as when it ended. Therefore no deductions can be made for the state of the property.

Deductions can be made however for rent since not all the tenants moved out on 3/6/11, so rent is owed - by ALL the joint tenants.

If the deposit is held in a scheme (check each of the 3 schemes yourself), use the scheme's arbitration process. If it is not, use he Small Claims Court.

nigem

He signed a joint tenancy dated 4/12/10, that expired 3/6/11 by mutual agreement.
He has been given a check in - check out inventory dated 3/6/10 five months before he had a contract.
The other 2 tenants left on the same day as the contract expired, but were still packing after the checkout time when the agent came to check the flat.

G_M

nigem wrote: »

He signed a joint tenancy dated 4/12/10, that expired 3/6/11 by mutual agreement.
He has been given a check in - check out inventory dated 3/6/10 five months before he had a contract.
The other 2 tenants left on the same day as the contract expired, but were still packing after the checkout time when the agent came to check the flat.

Then as I said, the check-in inventory dated 3/6/10 cannot be relied on by the landlord.

What about the deposit scheme?

What does "were still packing after the checkout time when the agent came to check the flat" mean? What date? The date the tenancy was due to end? The next day? A week later?

Either they had all moved out on 3/6/11 (which means all their possessions were out as well as them!), or they had not, in which case further rent is due.

may_fair

nigem wrote: »

He signed a joint tenancy dated 4/12/10, that expired 3/6/11 by mutual agreement.
He has been given a check in - check out inventory dated 3/6/10 five months before he had a contract.

What still isn't clear is whether the contract signed on 4th Dec 2010 was: a) an amendment to the contract originally signed in June 2010, assigning the position of the T who vacated to your son OR b) a completely new tenancy with a fixed term commencing 4th Dec 2010. (If a), then the June 2010 inventory would still be valid).

What is the date of commencement of term on the contract your son signed?

nigem

The tenancy commenced on 4/12/10. He and the other 2 tenants all signed again on that day.
The other 2 moved out on the correct day, 3/6/11, but an hour or so after the appointed time of 4pm.