Doh. Waterpumps with cambelt change.

pendulum

Well I've been an idiot [This post contains no question, just advice]

In September 2008, I fitted a full cambelt kit on my car. At the time I knew the advice was to replace the water pump as well, but I, erm... well I looked at it, and wiggled it, and there was no play in it and no leaks, so I decided to leave it alone.

24,000 miles and 2.75 years later, it has come back and bit me in the !!!! with a big leak from the waterpump area. A good few hours over the weekend was spent stripping it all down again and replacing it, quite a fiddly job that I could have easily avoided

The cambelt change interval is 72k miles. I was slightly tempted to be tight and reuse the old belt which was in good condition, but I came to my senses and put a new one on.

So yes, it's true what they say, you probably should change the water pump when you get the cambelt done, even if it looks ok. Especially if your getting a garage to do the cambelt because if it fails you'll have to pay loads in labour again.

pitkin2020

pendulum wrote: »

Well I've been an idiot [This post contains no question, just advice]

In September 2008, I fitted a full cambelt kit on my car. At the time I knew the advice was to replace the water pump as well, but I, erm... well I looked at it, and wiggled it, and there was no play in it and no leaks, so I decided to leave it alone.

24,000 miles and 2.75 years later, it has come back and bit me in the !!!! with a big leak from the waterpump area. A good few hours over the weekend was spent stripping it all down again and replacing it, quite a fiddly job that I could have easily avoided

The cambelt change interval is 72k miles. I was slightly tempted to be tight and reuse the old belt which was in good condition, but I came to my senses and put a new one on.

So yes, it's true what they say, you probably should change the water pump when you get the cambelt done, even if it looks ok. Especially if your getting a garage to do the cambelt because if it fails you'll have to pay loads in labour again.

The advice isn't should, its you must!!! Its not much more costly to get them done at the same time but if one fails then it does become costly. Atleast you have been able to do the work yourself so you have saved a few quid there but i'm not next time you'll change both lol

Ebe_Scrooge

Sound advice. I was in exactly the same situation recently. The previous owner of my car had had the cambelt done about 15K miles ago, the water pump went on me, looking at the receipts I discovered he hadn't done the water pump at the same time.

Both the cambelt and the water pump are relatively cheap items, it's the labour that's the expensive bit, so it really is false economy to replace one without the other.

Oh, and on my car, the cambelt has to come off to replace the thermostat. Again, the part itself costs peanuts, so I got that changed whilst they were at it. I don't know how common that is ( thermostats always used to be a 10 minute DIY job when I was young !! ), but worth checking for your particular car.

mikey72

It's the change in tension on the belt that kills the pumps.
It get used to running with a sideforce on the drive, and when you change the belt, the force is different. A new wear pattern can quite quickly wear the bearing so badly they leak, or even occasionally sieze, even if you can't see/feel anything when you look at it.

vaio

A good general rule is “Anything that has a bearing in it and touches the cam belt should be changed when you change the cam belt.”

Depending on the car I’d maybe go a bit further and do cam/crank oil seals too. On my car it’s ten minutes extra labour to change them whilst you are doing the belt vs 10 hours of labour if you need to do them subsequently.

s_b

pendulum i dont know what wheels you run but your pump could have seized rather than the seal gone and therefore bent many valves and or damaged pistons

and never reuse a timing belt
maybe when they were fitted on old capris and the belts werent really stressed you could get away with it but it wont last long these days


lesson learned and you put your hand up,not many would do that

jase1

One thing I've often thought though -- some manufacturers/dealers seem to get a bit sniffy about changing the water pump. "should outlast the car" and quote silly money like £150 for a replacement.

If the original is rated to say 150k (and this seems realistic as chain-cam cars don't seem to have problems with water pumps), where's the guarantee that a more reasonably-priced pump (£20) will last anything like as long? Could the replacement be more likely to fail than the original?

Not saying it's not a good idea, just curious.

vaio

Fair question…belt change interval on mine is 80k, and had been done once before I got the car, I did it for the second time at 150k.

My logic was the pump had been on there for at least 70k (and possibly for 150k if it wasn’t changed when the belt was first done) so for the £40 extra it cost to change it I got a guarantee that it would be ok for at least the next year. Getting the whole lot changed also removes the possibility of arguments about what failed if there is a problem later.

The best downside if I hadn’t changed it and it had failed is a days labour plus the pump plus another cam belt.

The nightmare downside if it had failed and taken the belt with it is engine out, 30 new valves, head gaskets, bolts and a labour bill that would make your eyes water.

Thinking about it, I’d guess if I lost the belt whilst it was running then the prospective repair bill would make it marginal whether it was worth doing even if the damage was just valves so pistons/heads/cams/guides etc all undamaged.

funkycoldribena

pendulum wrote: »

Well I've been an idiot [This post contains no question, just advice]

In September 2008, I fitted a full cambelt kit on my car. At the time I knew the advice was to replace the water pump as well, but I, erm... well I looked at it, and wiggled it, and there was no play in it and no leaks, so I decided to leave it alone.

24,000 miles and 2.75 years later, it has come back and bit me in the !!!! with a big leak from the waterpump area. A good few hours over the weekend was spent stripping it all down again and replacing it, quite a fiddly job that I could have easily avoided

The cambelt change interval is 72k miles. I was slightly tempted to be tight and reuse the old belt which was in good condition, but I came to my senses and put a new one on.

So yes, it's true what they say, you probably should change the water pump when you get the cambelt done, even if it looks ok. Especially if your getting a garage to do the cambelt because if it fails you'll have to pay loads in labour again.

Renault by any chance?

colino

I think you were right first time pendulum. You tested the component and it lasted for a long time before failing. The car could have been run into, traded in, sold or whatever in the past 33 months and the shiney new waterpump wouldn't have given you any return.

pendulum

vaio wrote: »

Depending on the car I’d maybe go a bit further and do cam/crank oil seals too.

Ahh. I bet they'll be the next things to go...

funkycoldribena wrote: »

Renault by any chance?

No, but it is french - Citroen!