Tax Errors - because I have two jobs

sussexking

I wonder if anyone can advise me on this and whether anyone else has had anything similar....

I've had two jobs since 2007 and recently the tax office has done it's "checks" and discovered that i've underpaid on tax from my second employer.

They want three years of tax amounting to about £3k....

I've gone back and quoted A19 and they said that it didn't come under A19.....

I've spoken to my second employer who i told at the time it was my second job and they've said that a P46 was completed and it's the code that the tax office gave. Surely it's the tax office's fault for giving the wrong tax code and they should have seen that its was a second employer. The fact it's taken 3+ years to discover this is surely a joke!!

How can i dispute this payment..... I don't have £3k and i feel that it's there error and that amount should be written off....

Am i correct, or are they right to be able to claim this underpayment.

I know now that i'm paying under the correct tax code (ie BR), so i know i'm ok for everything from 2010 onwards...... What should I do ??

Any assistance would be great.

Many thanks.

dzug1

Well it depends at least in part whether that P46 was filled in correctly - by your second employer?? Or did you fill it in?

sussexking

dzug1 wrote: »

Well it depends at least in part whether that P46 was filled in correctly - by your second employer?? Or did you fill it in?

Well it was over four years ago... i really can't remember.

Who should have a copy of the P46 ??

jem16

sussexking wrote: »

Who should have a copy of the P46 ??

Your employer should have a copy if they are doing their job correctly.

Presumably you have had your personal allowance twice as opposed to having a BR code for your 2nd job. Didn't you notice?

noh

I've spoken to my second employer who i told at the time it was my second job and they've said that a P46 was completed and it's the code that the tax office gave. Surely it's the tax office's fault for giving the wrong tax code and they should have seen that its was a second employer. The fact it's taken 3+ years to discover this is surely a joke!!

You knew it was your second job why didn't you notice you were paying the wrong amount of tax and sort it out immediately rather than waiting 3 years for it to come to HMRCs attention?

They are entitled to collect it from you most likely by reducing your personal allowance so the outstanding amount is collected over the next 1 or 2 years.

chrismac1

"Presumably you have had your personal allowance twice as opposed to having a BR code for your 2nd job. Didn't you notice?"

"You knew it was your second job why didn't you notice you were paying the wrong amount of tax and sort it out immediately rather than waiting 3 years for it to come to HMRCs attention?"

Both of these comments imply that every employee in the UK should know exactly how the UK tax system works. In my view as a practising accountant the system is set up to frustrate this knowledge as much as possible. You disagree?

Consider the most common current tax code - 747L. Utterly meaningless - the number 747 is not required for any taxpayer's tax calculation who I have on my books. Is it any wonder that the vast majority of uk taxpayers haven't got the foggiest idea what the hell is going on?

To return to the OP, if the OP filled in the P46 correctly then the fault here lies with either employer or HMRC. If the employer submitted it correctly, it lies with HMRC. Further, if both employers submitted their end of year returns accurately, then by May 2008 for the 07-08 tax year, HMRC had all the information they required to get things right. They had until April 2010 to notify the OP, likewise until April 2011 to notify the OP of the 08-09 problem.

Did they do so? If not, in my view ESC A19 most certainly is applicable. The OP has had the standard "pretend we are a high street bank and just fob them off" response - in itself an utter disgrace from a public sector body. Keep trying, keep writing until you get a response which at least mentions specific things to do with YOUR case, not just a generic "we can't be arsed, so here is our standard fob off letter, now go away".

I have clients who were successful after the third letter, there are posters on this site who claim it took 4 or 5. A disgraceful waste of taxpayers money - nothing new there from HMRC. So keep trying!

sussexking

chrismac1 wrote: »

"Presumably you have had your personal allowance twice as opposed to having a BR code for your 2nd job. Didn't you notice?"

"You knew it was your second job why didn't you notice you were paying the wrong amount of tax and sort it out immediately rather than waiting 3 years for it to come to HMRCs attention?"

Both of these comments imply that every employee in the UK should know exactly how the UK tax system works. In my view as a practising accountant the system is set up to frustrate this knowledge as much as possible. You disagree?

Consider the most common current tax code - 747L. Utterly meaningless - the number 747 is not required for any taxpayer's tax calculation who I have on my books. Is it any wonder that the vast majority of uk taxpayers haven't got the foggiest idea what the hell is going on?

To return to the OP, if the OP filled in the P46 correctly then the fault here lies with either employer or HMRC. If the employer submitted it correctly, it lies with HMRC. Further, if both employers submitted their end of year returns accurately, then by May 2008 for the 07-08 tax year, HMRC had all the information they required to get things right. They had until April 2010 to notify the OP, likewise until April 2011 to notify the OP of the 08-09 problem.

Did they do so? If not, in my view ESC A19 most certainly is applicable. The OP has had the standard "pretend we are a high street bank and just fob them off" response - in itself an utter disgrace from a public sector body. Keep trying, keep writing until you get a response which at least mentions specific things to do with YOUR case, not just a generic "we can't be arsed, so here is our standard fob off letter, now go away".

I have clients who were successful after the third letter, there are posters on this site who claim it took 4 or 5. A disgraceful waste of taxpayers money - nothing new there from HMRC. So keep trying!

Thank you Chrismac for your response on this. Totally agree, it's a minefield!!. I've been back and forward with my second employer to get some more info. They've provided me with copies of all my P60' returns that were sent to HMRC and of course this has confirmed on it, my national insurance number. Surely they should have picked up that there was two employers for me when getting this....

I've gone back to my second employer and asked them to forward me a copy of the P46 that would have been completed and i'll go back to them.

When they did write to me saying that the A19 wasn't applicable, they did say they would write to me again about how to pay - this was about a month ago, and as yet i've not heard anything... so maybe they've given up already (nah i doubt it!).

With respect to others comments about, did i notice?.... didn't realise what to expect on my payslip for a tax code, as i've never had two employers before.....

Cheers

jem16

chrismac1 wrote: »

Both of these comments imply that every employee in the UK should know exactly how the UK tax system works. In my view as a practising accountant the system is set up to frustrate this knowledge as much as possible. You disagree?

Yes I do disagree. I'm not an accountant and i don't know everything there is to know about the UK tax system. However I do know enough to know that I cannot have a tax free personal allowance twice and this was all the OP needed to know.

Consider the most common current tax code - 747L. Utterly meaningless - the number 747 is not required for any taxpayer's tax calculation who I have on my books. Is it any wonder that the vast majority of uk taxpayers haven't got the foggiest idea what the hell is going on?

Most of the UK taxpayers do not require the assistance of an accountant as their tax affairs are pretty straightforward so I don't see what the point is of comparing your clients to the normal UK taxpayer. People use an accountant because they don't have simple tax affairs.

To return to the OP, if the OP filled in the P46 correctly then the fault here lies with either employer or HMRC.

Therein lies the problem - did the OP fill in the P46 correctly or indeed did the OP actually complete a P46.

Finding out if a P46 was completed and how needs to tbe the first step instead of jumping to conclusions.

However people have to take some responsibility for their own tax affairs - the basics are clearly laid out on the HMRC website.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/codes-basics.htm

jem16

sussexking wrote: »

They've provided me with copies of all my P60' returns that were sent to HMRC and of course this has confirmed on it, my national insurance number. Surely they should have picked up that there was two employers for me when getting this....

Yes i agree that they should have picked up on this sooner but then so should you.

What date was the first P60 from your 2nd employer? This would help to see whether or not ESC A18 is applicable here. If it was indeed May 2008 then I believe you do have a case here.

noh

chrismac1 wrote: »

"Presumably you have had your personal allowance twice as opposed to having a BR code for your 2nd job. Didn't you notice?"

"You knew it was your second job why didn't you notice you were paying the wrong amount of tax and sort it out immediately rather than waiting 3 years for it to come to HMRCs attention?"

Both of these comments imply that every employee in the UK should know exactly how the UK tax system works. In my view as a practising accountant the system is set up to frustrate this knowledge as much as possible. You disagree?

I disagree.
Every employee should at least understand the basics of the income tax system. Otherwise how do you know whether you have paid the correct amount?

Valli

It never fails to astound me how many people DO just accept what's on their payslip...I am constantly asked for advice about tax by my co-workers because I have made it my business to (a) understand the tax system insofar as it applies to me (under the PAYE scheme) and (b) check my payslips.

having said that I have never ever got to grips with knowing if the WFTC I receive is correct...

At one time I used to have a really good understanding of NI too, and I used to have copies of the tables because they were printed in the newspaper. I get 'em online now.