Tax Errors - because I have two jobs

sussexking

Thank you for all your comments tonight... just come across this

cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/index.php/tag/underpaid-tax

in that it says DON'T PAY IT!! - KEEP ON AT THE HMRC AND YOU WILL SUCCEED!!... one comment they also said is that after the HMRC have written to people saying no to the A19, they then write off the amount.....

Well they've written to my saying that the A19 case wasn't valid, and so be interested to see what happens, cos as yet i've not heard back from them, so maybe they have written it off.... lol!!!

Thanks everyone though for your comments tonight...

Any

Chris I am also an accountant and I completely disagree too.
Every individual needs to know the basics. It is their life, their money and they should take some responsibility to understand it!
No one is asking individuals to be tax advisors, but personal allowance being taken twice-seriously there isn't more basic thing than that!

jimmo

Speaking as a former taxman, who, at one time, had responsibility for deciding ESC A19 matters, I have frequently struggled with the Reasonable Belief test. If I had 2 jobs or, maybe a job and a pension and was given 2 personal allowances via code numbers I would have absolutely no chance of convincing HMRC, my former employer, that not only did I believe my tax affairs were in order but they should also accept that it was reasonable for me to hold that belief.
However, if another HMRC employee in a non tax based role, such as a security guard, messenger or caretaker had a similar problem it might be entirely reasonable for HMRC to accept the reasonable belief test for them.
What if my wife had a similar problem? Would it be reasonable for HMRC to expect her to understand tax because her husband is/ was a taxman?
The OP, sussexking, has 2 jobs. Does that automatically mean that he really should understand how tax works? The only answer I can give is "Not necessarily."
It would take a lot more probing to reach a reasonable conclusion on that.
There have been lots and lots of threads on this forum about ESC A19 and , in many ways the apparent ignorance of those caught up beggars my belief but are they really to blame? I don't know.
My attitude is that if you are genuinely in difficulties because you really didn't understand I will do all that I can do to help you but if you are a chancer who, deep down, realised your situation was a bit iffy then I really object to having to pay my share of the tax you have escaped.
Having said that, I think sussexking has to come back to the basics.
When he started his second job he should have completed a P46 confirming that job as a second job. Then the employer should have automatically operated code 0T(nothing to do with HMRC).
The secondary employer says that the code number they operated was given to them by HMRC. If the employer is telling the truth there should be solid evidence that HMRC is seriously at fault. I can't help the feeling that the secondary employer is covering up something they have done wrong.
Trust nobody. The "get stuffed" letter you have received from HMRC is almost certainly not in accordance with correct procedures.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pommanual/PAYE95090.htm
The secondary employer's explanation could be true but could be full of holes.

John_Pierpoint

When you "retire" it gets worse, you (probably) get a second source of income paid gross - the state pension. You may or may not qualify for a "pensioners" additional personal allowance or part there of. Try explaining the 30% tax band to a group of pensioners at the Day Centre and then have them explaining it to each other......

For most pensioners at least the 10% band of income tax has dropped out of the equation, a small blessing because I bet thousands failed to (re) claim it.

But this muddle now has tax credits grafted onto the system.

Now all you have to do is under pay tax some how and you have next years tax code scrambled, as HMRC tend to go for the easy option of of reclaiming the tax via PAYE, even if you tick the box marked "I want to pay now".

By now you have no chance of understanding your tax code, especially if you never understood the tax system in the first place.

So your dying words will be "can you help me sort out my tax..........".

[All the above is true but is an amalgamation of three of my relatives]

chrismac1

All I can say is that I have several pensioner clients who should not need an accountant, but in fact they do because of the aggressive and in my view completely unnecessary way HMRC have hounded them, including mention of the word Bailiff - which to a law-abiding 70-year old who has always paid his way in life causes all sorts of stress and worry.

My worst case is someone who has been mentally ill for over 20 years and who is very unlikely to be able to work again, in the old days he'd be in a mental home but these days it's care in the community with an outtreach worker. Through no fault of his own, 2 and a half years ago HMRC mixed his record with an accountancy partner's! Then sent some big bills. I got involved 1 year ago and have recently lodged a formal complaint given how long it has taken.

Anything like this in my opinion gets shoved in the "too difficult" pile and no-one in HMRC wants to touch it. It's not a tax system it's a national disgrace.

[Deleted User]

jem16 wrote: »

Your employer should have a copy if they are doing their job ?

Although many do there is no legal requirement for the Employer to keep copies of form P46.

sussexking

After a year since i started this thread... update for you...

Just spoken to the HMRC who went to my 2nd employer and they have told me that a letter is being prepared to say that I now no longer owe any tax (I will be reimbursed what I have paid them the last six months or so - as I needed to start paying something while my claim was being investigated). My 2nd employer has acknowledged it was there fault for not stating correctly that it was a second job on my P46.... nice result!! (Matter now hopefully all resolved!)

PlutoinCapricorn

I hope that this good news will inspire other people in a similar situation.

I also hope that anyone reading this thread who isn't already doing it will learn how income tax is calculated and check their payslips etc. very carefully.

Eliza_2

I do think it's a minefield if your income isn't straightforward. I have 3 occupational pensions and a state pension. I have three part time paye jobs and am also self employed with my own business.

Over the last few weeks I have received letters, two which say I am owed £300 odd, another £800 odd. I've so far received one of the £300+ cheques. Then yesterday a cheque for £59 arrived out of the blue, the letter says I will have received a separate explanation though none has come yet. Then today another letter saying a penalty notice has been amended, please pay £0.00. If I don't I will be penalised, and a paying in slip for £0.00 is enclosed as well as notes on how to pay.

I also get working tax credits, have no idea how that is worked out at all.

I've lost the will!!! Trying to get through on the phone is impossible, I just hope it will all come out in the wash when I submit my self assessment. If it doesn't I'm not losing sleep over it!

I completely sympathise with the original poster, although his situation is now resolved I don't see how I could possibly have any sort of reasonable belief that my tax affairs are straight and as has been said, that would apply to many people. I don't think HMRC can show any reasonable belief that they're getting it right either!

Glad yours is now sorted, well done!

LurkerTurnedPoster

Eliza wrote: »

............Then today another letter saying a penalty notice has been amended, please pay £0.00. If I don't I will be penalised, and a paying in slip for £0.00 is enclosed as well as notes on how to pay.........

Post of the day award surely?

Eliza, I hope they sort things out and in the meantime, on your outstanding balance of 0.00 I just got a nice big Tuesday laugh. Thank you.