Why on earth do npower ALWAYS try to raise my direct debit every time I get a bill?

[Deleted User]

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Ok, I'll exlain that for you - it's quite simple.

You get a credit if in the past you've paid more than you've used - we are all usually in that situation over the summer, and some at the end of the year if the estimated use is greater than the real use. So the credit is built up from what happened in the past, but what is calculated for your dd is what the supplier thinks will happen in the future.

The forecast for the next year could well be much higher than the actual used during the last year though - particularly if you've been on a fixed rate for a couple of years, and the estimate is mainly on the standard rate when the fixed rate ends - the increase could well be 30% or 40% in such cases (whether or not the account is currently in credit).

In my case, websaver 6 was due to end in May iirc, and my estimate was on the standard rate from May onwards - so the dd went up from £54 to £78. When I signed up for websaver 11 in May, my dd was recalculated (without me asking) down to £65 (so dds are reduced when circumstances dictate, at least with bgas).

I'm no apologist for the supplier industry and like to expose any incompentances they make - but most of the posts regarding dds seem to be people not liking what I consider perfectly normal and fair business practices.

In the good old days of the cegb, every customer was extended 3, 4 or 5 months credit (by quartely billing), but really that was an unusual business situation. If they continued with that system, then in order to generate the regulated returns form the business, the tariffs would have to be higher (to fund the working capital requirements of the interest free loan to all customers).

Graham - Thank you for your explanation and I do accept that in your circumstance, an increase was necessary. However, I have come across energy companies increasing DD for no apparent reason ie when the customer is still on the same tariff and there is no evidence that an increase in consumption can be foreseen. This is my point - I cannot condone energy companies increasing DD for no apparent reason. The reason you gave me is when it was necessary and therefore not relevant.

As for your comment about cashflow, I take it then that you would be happy to pay petrol companies in advance to fill up your car. Or for that matter, paying Tesco for your anticipated grocery expenditure. Graham, these companies are making billions of pounds in profits, and I am not gullible enough to think that we're getting cheaper energy prices because we're helping these companies with their cashflow. Competition alone should see to that.

grahamc2003

[quote=[Deleted User];44209670]
As for your comment about cashflow, I take it then that you would be happy to pay petrol companies in advance to fill up your car. Or for that matter, paying Tesco for your anticipated grocery expenditure. Graham, these companies are making billions of pounds in profits, and I am not gullible enough to think that we're getting cheaper energy prices because we're helping these companies with their cashflow. Competition alone should see to that.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't mind at all paying in advance for groceries or petrol if the discount for doing so were big enough. (not that those examples are at all relevant to power usage in the home, which is continuous). You pay at the time when you buy petrol, but you use it in the days and weeks later - hey, just like elctricity on dd!

How do you pay for your house insurance? 3 or 4 months after you taken it out, or a year in advance? Car insurance? are they 'greedy'? Phone contract?

Which supplier is making billions in profits?

Sorry my direct and accurate answers to every concern you have raised have somehow been irrelevant - they have been very relevant and enough to make you change your complaint each time each one was answered!

grizzly1911

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind at all paying in advance for groceries or petrol if the discount for doing so were big enough

Which supplier is making billions in profits?

Direct debit was brought in to aid their cash flow and reduce their administrative costs.

I moved over to DDR after 23 years of not missing a quarterly bill because the standard tariffs became penal. I wasn't getting a discount I was moving to the going rate.

Anyone is still on a standard variable rate is now being well and truly fleeced.

All suppliers are making profits or they wouldn't be doing it. The retail arms may plead poverty but that is because it is taken in the wholesale side. Smoke and mirrors. A bit like BP and Shell who don't make much out of the retail forecourt.

There is absolutely no incentive for the suppliers to look after their customers interests and offer genuine cut price deals they just pass us around the system as each drifts to the cheapest almost by rotation.

I wouldn't mind if it was the choice between buying a supermarket budget bean or a major brand where there may be a difference to individual tastes but it is just electricity or gas.

I would love one of them to do an ALDI and just supply cheap, quality product at one or two prices. Forget all the daft tariffs. I wonder how long it would take for all the others to actually fight for our business. Of course it won't happen as it is a cosy little club.

By all means penalise repeat offenders for not paying within a fair period. I would think that the majority of (non business) people paid up in within the given payment period not the 5 months you suggest. If you have evidence to the contrary I stand to be corrected.

As I have said elsewhere I am sure the vast majority of customer "happily" pay their DDRs, don't have problems and are satisfied. The suppliers do supply a product but as they driven out all the "fat" we are now seeing them for what they are.:eek:

Cardew

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind at all paying in advance for groceries or petrol if the discount for doing so were big enough. (not that those examples are at all relevant to power usage in the home, which is continuous). You pay at the time when you buy petrol, but you use it in the days and weeks later - hey, just like elctricity on dd!

How do you pay for your house insurance? 3 or 4 months after you taken it out, or a year in advance? Car insurance? are they 'greedy'? Phone contract?

Which supplier is making billions in profits?

Sorry my direct and accurate answers to every concern you have raised have somehow been irrelevant - they have been very relevant and enough to make you change your complaint each time each one was answered!

I pay by Direct debit even when I get no discount for that payment method as it is simply more convenient. The large discounts offered by most Utility companies make it a 'no-brainer'.

There are as many complaints on MSE about the DD set too low as there are for it being set too high.

I find it extraordinary the amount of flak Utility companies receive for making 'excessive' profits.

Tesco made far more profit last year(£3.8 billion -£2.5Billion in UK) than all the Utility companies combined.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/19/tesco-reports-record-profits

nPower

Hi Viper_7

I am sorry to hear that you have not been billed correctly for so long. If this is the case you may be entitled to the Back Billing Policy.

If you send me your details to forumresponse@npower.com I will take a look into it for you.

Thanks
Sally

grizzly1911

Cardew wrote: »

I pay by Direct debit even when I get no discount for that payment method as it is simply more convenient. The large discounts offered by most Utility companies make it a 'no-brainer'.

There are as many complaints on MSE about the DD set too low as there are for it being set too high.

I find it extraordinary the amount of flak Utility companies receive for making 'excessive' profits.

Tesco made far more profit last year(£3.8 billion -£2.5Billion in UK) than all the Utility companies combined.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/19/tesco-reports-record-profits

You are quite right.

I agree that Supermarket profits are too high also.

I guess the difference is they are not utilities and there are alternatives. If you want fillet steak and can afford that is an individuals choice.

Heat/light and water are basic commodities. they come in one flavour only.

[Deleted User]

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind at all paying in advance for groceries or petrol if the discount for doing so were big enough. (not that those examples are at all relevant to power usage in the home, which is continuous). You pay at the time when you buy petrol, but you use it in the days and weeks later - hey, just like elctricity on dd!

How do you pay for your house insurance? 3 or 4 months after you taken it out, or a year in advance? Car insurance? are they 'greedy'? Phone contract?

Which supplier is making billions in profits?

Sorry my direct and accurate answers to every concern you have raised have somehow been irrelevant - they have been very relevant and enough to make you change your complaint each time each one was answered!

You are totally contradicting yourself. I am not saying that I am against paying in advance, but I am against energy companies making DD highly inflated and unrealistic to actual usage. Your examples about car insurance or phone contracts are complete nonsense. You know what your premium is at the start; you either pay the full amount for the year or pay a surcharge for the convenience of paying monthly. Not the same thing at all. If you can't see the difference, perhaps you should go to specsavers:)

KimYeovil

[quote=[Deleted User];44226496]You are totally contradicting yourself. I am not saying that I am against paying in advance, but I am against energy companies making DD highly inflated and unrealistic to actual usage. Your examples about car insurance or phone contracts are complete nonsense. You know what your premium is at the start; you either pay the full amount for the year or pay a surcharge for the convenience of paying monthly. Not the same thing at all. If you can't see the difference, perhaps you should go to specsavers:)[/QUOTE]

Again it is you is being contradictory - or, rather, you are simply being contrary.

You are deliberately conflating an incorrect revised monthly amount (which NO-ONE is defending) and the concept of paying in advance to a fixed seasonal review date (rather than the anniversary of when you signed up).

And your denial of similarity with insurance or telephones is incorrect - you do know in advance the premium. Of course, you do not know exactly how much you will end up using but you do know the difference in price for a likely consumption between the standard tariff and your chosen direct debit tariff.

As explained (more than once) by Graham there is no evidence with the OP's figures that a miscalculation has taken place. If the computers have miscalculated then request for a revised and correct instalment should be accepted - no-one has disputed that.

95%* of complaints are incorrect - they are from those who object to paying in advance, or who object to the zero point being in April rather than the anniversary of their contract.

* Yes, I admit, I pulled that statistic from where you think. But I doubt it is that far off from reality.

faerie_girl

They wanted to increase ours from £35 each to £70 each :O Told them no and that if it ended up going over we will pay a large lump sum off. After 6 months olf 2x £35 we are £200 in credit

Their estimate for our electric was shocking. We've never in the 5 years of living together come close to what it was, it's like they'd done pot luck on some random figures.

[Deleted User]

KimYeovil wrote: »

Again it is you is being contradictory - or, rather, you are simply being contrary.

You are deliberately conflating an incorrect revised monthly amount (which NO-ONE is defending) and the concept of paying in advance to a fixed seasonal review date (rather than the anniversary of when you signed up).

And your denial of similarity with insurance or telephones is incorrect - you do know in advance the premium. Of course, you do not know exactly how much you will end up using but you do know the difference in price for a likely consumption between the standard tariff and your chosen direct debit tariff.

As explained (more than once) by Graham there is no evidence with the OP's figures that a miscalculation has taken place. If the computers have miscalculated then request for a revised and correct instalment should be accepted - no-one has disputed that.

95%* of complaints are incorrect - they are from those who object to paying in advance, or who object to the zero point being in April rather than the anniversary of their contract.

* Yes, I admit, I pulled that statistic from where you think. But I doubt it is that far off from reality.

There is no such thing as direct debit tariff - all tariffs can be paid by direct debit. As for your claim of 95% of complaints - by your own admittance, this is complete nonsense. I have not seen any evidence that anyone objects to paying in advance, but I have seen plenty of evidence where consumers have been mislead or manipulated and treated unfairly.