Why on earth do npower ALWAYS try to raise my direct debit every time I get a bill?

[Deleted User]

KimYeovil wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. The customer profits from cheaper prices. If you are not happy paying in advance then pay the higher price of a non-direct debit tariff.



More nonsense. Stop direct debits and put the costs of billing up. Genius. (No idea why the rubbish about the elderly is there - what has that got to do with this thread?)

KIM - as always, you're talking from the back of your neck!! This is nothing to do with the customer profiting from the cheaper tariff. I know that we have a choice by not paying by DD, but you have overlooked 1 important point - why do energy companies increase customers' DD when they're in credit. It has nothing to do with keeping prices down, or indeed, looking after the interest of the customer, but everything to do with greed and profiteering by taking advantage of vulnerable people.

grahamc2003

[quote=[Deleted User];44183986]... but you have overlooked 1 important point - why do energy companies increase customers' DD when they're in credit. It has nothing to do with keeping prices down, or indeed, looking [/QUOTE]

Is that the specific point you are relying on to decide the supplier is 'greedy'?

A credit on an account is largely irrelevant to whether a dd is increased or not. The deciding factor is whether that credit plus the remaining dd payments are sufficient to cover the predicted annual cost at the end of the year.

For example, say the op is £50 in credit, with 10 months to go and 10 dds of £40pm (making £450 at the end of year). If they are predicted to use a further £600 of electricity, then the difference (£150) would be collected by a £15 increase in the dd to £65. Surely that's easy to understand and pretty obvious and, some would argue, quite sensible for those who like to pay their bills in equal monthly amounts rather than paying less and being landed with a high bill now and then.

I suspect the main gain to suppliers isn't the working capital injection, but rather a reduction in the number of people getting into arrears, which I expect takes up a lot of a supplier's time.

Keith

EON put out DD down from £65 to £40 on the bill I got last week. I'm going to be calling them to put it back when I get a moment next week.

KimYeovil

[quote=[Deleted User];44183986]KIM - as always, you're talking from the back of your neck!! This is nothing to do with the customer profiting from the cheaper tariff. I know that we have a choice by not paying by DD, but you have overlooked 1 important point - why do energy companies increase customers' DD when they're in credit. It has nothing to do with keeping prices down, or indeed, looking after the interest of the customer, but everything to do with greed and profiteering by taking advantage of vulnerable people.[/QUOTE]

I have not overlooked that point - it is inherent in the current arrangement where spring is the zero point and customers are expected to not allow their balance to be negative that many customers will have their instalments increased whilst in credit. The arithmetic is straightforward.

As already pointed out by Graham there is no evidence from the OP's figures that any miscalculation has taken place.

No idea what your repeated mention of vulnerable people is about. Probably just some random emotional blackmail.

You can object to the system if you like - but that is what is currently in place. If you have an alternative feel free to voice it (I have suggested mine - large late payment penalties and other charges. Are your 'vulnerable' customers going to be happy paying £45 late payment charges when their catch-up bill can't be paid in seven days?)

(As to where you are talking from I am afraid I would have to add an extra negative vertical component to the translation.)

Widelats

[quote=[Deleted User];44183986]KIM - as always, you're talking from the back of your neck!! This is nothing to do with the customer profiting from the cheaper tariff. I know that we have a choice by not paying by DD, but you have overlooked 1 important point - why do energy companies increase customers' DD when they're in credit. It has nothing to do with keeping prices down, or indeed, looking after the interest of the customer, but everything to do with greed and profiteering by taking advantage of vulnerable people.[/QUOTE]

You are correct, this kim character has been on my ignore list for months, talks a load of useless crap.

The OP's question was answered, so cue the silly part of the thread with kim at the forefront of talking a load of cobblers.

oldwiring

KimYeovil wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. The customer profits from cheaper prices. If you are not happy paying in advance then pay the higher price of a non-direct debit tariff.

Paying in advance, I do not consider that was the intention of direct debit schemes. The intention was to help customers to budget with equal monthly payments over a 12 month period. Given seasonalities of power usage some times the customer would be in debt, sometimes in credit.

The NPower rep's

we always like to make sure a customer's account is up to date to make sure they don't go in to debt

really let's the cat out of the bag:mad:. They are corporate scammers, which given the history of at least one, is not a great surprise

[Deleted User]

KimYeovil wrote: »

I have not overlooked that point - it is inherent in the current arrangement where spring is the zero point and customers are expected to not allow their balance to be negative that many customers will have their instalments increased whilst in credit. The arithmetic is straightforward.

Yes - you always overlook points made by other members on this forum because all you're interested in is voicing and forcing your opinions on other people.

I do not object to energy companies increasing DD, (for genuine reasons) but when I have people telling me that their DD have been increased by 2 or 3 times their current amount, (and yes, at times when they're in credit by large amounts), I do not call that straight forward arithmetic. Of course, to someone like yourself who is so far up energy companies backside, you would call that acceptable.

And please do not insult my intelligence by telling me that the increase in DD is in anticipation of a price increase or due to a hard winter, because I never see occasions when DD are decreased or indeed any large credit balances paid back. Even when customers ask for refunds, companies are always reluctant to pay any credit balances by giving feeble excuses or ignore such requests. In fact, I have never seen any increases in DD in line with a price increase. So, you still want to convince me that customers are treated fairly and that energy companies are not taking advantage of vulnerable people? Perhaps you should come and listen to some of the life experiences I hear from energy customers. That may bring you down a few rungs off your ladder!!

[Deleted User]

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Is that the specific point you are relying on to decide the supplier is 'greedy'?

A credit on an account is largely irrelevant to whether a dd is increased or not. The deciding factor is whether that credit plus the remaining dd payments are sufficient to cover the predicted annual cost at the end of the year.

For example, say the op is £50 in credit, with 10 months to go and 10 dds of £40pm (making £450 at the end of year). If they are predicted to use a further £600 of electricity, then the difference (£150) would be collected by a £15 increase in the dd to £65. Surely that's easy to understand and pretty obvious and, some would argue, quite sensible for those who like to pay their bills in equal monthly amounts rather than paying less and being landed with a high bill now and then.

I suspect the main gain to suppliers isn't the working capital injection, but rather a reduction in the number of people getting into arrears, which I expect takes up a lot of a supplier's time.

Graham - I do accept your point, and I'm sure there are times when an increase can be justified. But what you fail to explain is when a customer has accumulated a credit balance, surely this is indicative that the DD are for the correct amount. Otherwise, how else would a credit balance occur on an account?

Now I do understand that seasonal variations can occur where a customer could be in debit after the winter months and in credit during the summer months, but it would appear that energy customers always ensure that their customers are always in credit, no doubt to gain the upper hand. As already been stated by another forum member, the whole idea of DD is to spread the annual cost equally over the year - that means a customer could be in credit or in debit due to seasonal variation. Energy companies should only increase DD when payments are too low to offset the bills. This is seldom the case.

Viper_7

nPower_company_representative wrote: »

Hi MrLeeLee

With colder winters and increasing costs, we always like to make sure a customer's account is up to date to make sure they don't go in to debt. If we receive a meter reading that is slightly higher than normal, we would reassess your payments to make sure this is covered.

We've just experienced an extremely cold winter - plus energy prices increased at the beginning of the year, so an increase in your monthly payments would be expected. I can look at your account for you if you like just to double check? Just send your details to [EMAIL="forumresponse@npower.com"]forumresponse@npower.com[/EMAIL].

Thanks
Sally

What a load of bull!

You are useless - admit it.
You've not billed me correctly in 4 years.
I'm unable to provide a meter reading by phone or on-line as your inept system will not allow 3 meter readings (Super E7 Tariff)
Informed you of this every quarter..what happens - nothing, nadda.

You don't care about your customers all you care about is profit - hence the real reason for increasing DD's on the sly in the hope consumers don't check and just accept it and pay more early, so you can reap in the interest.

grahamc2003

[quote=[Deleted User];44204744]. But what you fail to explain is when a customer has accumulated a credit balance, surely this is indicative that the DD are for the correct amount. Otherwise, how else would a credit balance occur on an account?
.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I'll exlain that for you - it's quite simple.

You get a credit if in the past you've paid more than you've used - we are all usually in that situation over the summer, and some at the end of the year if the estimated use is greater than the real use. So the credit is built up from what happened in the past, but what is calculated for your dd is what the supplier thinks will happen in the future.

The forecast for the next year could well be much higher than the actual used during the last year though - particularly if you've been on a fixed rate for a couple of years, and the estimate is mainly on the standard rate when the fixed rate ends - the increase could well be 30% or 40% in such cases (whether or not the account is currently in credit).

In my case, websaver 6 was due to end in May iirc, and my estimate was on the standard rate from May onwards - so the dd went up from £54 to £78. When I signed up for websaver 11 in May, my dd was recalculated (without me asking) down to £65 (so dds are reduced when circumstances dictate, at least with bgas).

I'm no apologist for the supplier industry and like to expose any incompentances they make - but most of the posts regarding dds seem to be people not liking what I consider perfectly normal and fair business practices.

In the good old days of the cegb, every customer was extended 3, 4 or 5 months credit (by quartely billing), but really that was an unusual business situation. If they continued with that system, then in order to generate the regulated returns form the business, the tariffs would have to be higher (to fund the working capital requirements of the interest free loan to all customers).