House or education

ninky_2

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Quite agree. Life is much more a matter of choices than most people think.

couldn't disagree more. life is far less a matter of choices than most of us are aware of for most of the time.

you can no more choose your educational achievement - or anything else for that matter - than you can choose to walk in a straight line after drinking a bottle of vodka. we are all just a bundle of genetics being pushed forward by a whole heap of environmental and physiological factors. sure our conscious awareness makes us feel like we chose to study drama rather than chemistry. or take the stairs rather than the lift. or chat up the cute blonde in the corner. all (often literally) b0110x.

Oldernotwiser

silvercar wrote: »

Often achieved by buying a house in a good catchment area, to give the kids a good education and a house to inherit.

A good school is one thing but inheriting a house isn't likely to help your children through their working lives unless you plan to pop your clogs sooner rather than later.

Most people's "children" will be retired themselves before they inherit.

Loughton_Monkey

michaels wrote: »

I guess spelling was not on the curriculum when you grew up though...

Certainly not! We didn't have one. We had a 'Silly Bus' instead!

Loughton_Monkey

FTBFun wrote: »

On the contrary, I think our society - which has a safety net for the sick and elderly etc - is a much better way to run things than in some of the developing countries.

Having elderly beggars come up to you in India - a country which has a space programme - wasn't much to convince me that the developed world's social framework was not the way to do things.

Is there not a possiblity you're seeing the Far East through rose-tinted specs a tad?

Bendix can adequately reply to this himself. But for my part, I simply don't agree. To describe the British Social Security System as a 'safety net for the sick and elderly' you are describing what it was designed for. Not what it is now; a gravy train for the idle and indolent.

If you knew much about Asia, you would know that most of it is not like that. India is still 'behind' in its development. How many beggars did UK have on the stree in the mid 17th century while our economy was developing?

Almost every Asian country has a 'safety net for the sick and elderly'. It's just not as generous as our own and doesn't contribute to those who can work but won't - or people who can save and don't. This breeds a population who - generally speaking - extremely hard working, extremely 'responsible' and self-motivated, who save avidly for needs including retirement, and who believe passionately in the value of education - to the extent that you would not believe it except by talking and mixing with the locals.

Try, for example, the Korean health system. I think you would look on ours as third world after that.

ninky_2

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Almost every Asian country has a 'safety net for the sick and elderly'. It's just not as generous as our own and doesn't contribute to those who can work but won't - or people who can save and don't. This breeds a population who - generally speaking - extremely hard working, extremely 'responsible' and self-motivated, who save avidly for needs including retirement, and who believe passionately in the value of education - to the extent that you would not believe it except by talking and mixing with the locals.
.

you really believe that is all down to not having a british style welfare state? you could say the same about lots of countries across america and africa. plus plenty of people in the uk have a strong work ethic.

it's also a myth that there are no lazy asians.

Loughton_Monkey

ninky wrote: »

you really believe that is all down to not having a british style welfare state? you could say the same about lots of countries across america and africa. plus plenty of people in the uk have a strong work ethic.

it's also a myth that there are no lazy asians.

Using exaggeration and extremes simply destroys your so-called 'argument'.

I didn't say it is 'all down...' to anything. I am not saying no-one in UK has a work ethic. Nor did I say there are no lazy Asians.

The whole point is that there are lazy Asians. Just far, far, fewer of them, and those that choose to be lazy are simply not a problem to anyone. They just don't get paid by the taxpayer.

I know you never use capital letters. But I assume you can read posts that contain them? Please read what people write.

I mean, what part of "generally speaking" don't you understand?

SingleSue

ninky wrote: »

so what was the suitable environment that your parents provided? seems like it was the state that provided the education. they just provided the genes.

agreed people can still do well in life without parental help but i think parents should aim to provide a good start. personally i feel if you can't provide that emotionally and financially (and i'd set the standards pretty high on that one if it was me as parent and include wanting to help with uni fees and house deposits) then you shouldn't really have children.

just because you have done alright (i have a sneaking suspicion you could have done better with more opportunities) doesn't make it okay for people to pop out kids and let them find for themselves through the local comprehensive education system with no decent father figure.

I can provide emotionally but not financially....does that make me a bad parent or one who should never have had children?

I have also provided educationally, it has not all been left to the schools, the boys have had different languages spoken to them since they were babies, maths questions set, all outings have had an educational basis etc, in fact, they all moan that everything I do, has an educational/learning slant to it.

Mind you, I didn't just 'pop' children out, each were thought about, each were easily affordable at the time, how was I to know that their father would not go the distance of family life or that they would turn out to have differing needs.

ash28

bendix wrote: »

Couldn't disagree more. You're using your environment as an excuse.

I too was in an unheated 6X7 bedroom at home, but i shared mine. I had nowhere to do homework, but I still did it. You just cope. You just get it done. It comes from you, not the size of your bedroom.

Britain used to be a place that 'coped' with adversity. Now it uses every conceivable excuse it can find to justify mediocrity.

Totally agree, my brother had the 6' x 7' room, my two sister's and I shared a room, there was no room for a desk or table and chair, so everything was done sitting on the bed, if I did my homework in the bedroom it was often pandemonium (I was the eldest), if I did my homework at the dining table it was the same - people talking, tv or music on etc.

What it gave me was the ability to block out background noise. I can concentrate virtually anywhere - which actually helped a lot when I was working. Abject fear of one or two teachers probably spurred me on a bit too.

If you want to work you will, something like noise or lack of space shouldn't impact you too much if you really want to do something.

Running_Horse

silvercar wrote: »

Often achieved by buying a house in a good catchment area, to give the kids a good education and a house to inherit.

Sounds good to me. We were house hunting when my wife was pregnant. Top of the list was a good primary school, because if you have lost them at 11, then you have no chance.

Reading the Ofsted reports, there is one failing school in every town, usually near the local sink estate. There was even one school in the nearby town where not one child came up to the level of literacy and numeracy expected. Not one. What on earth were the teachers doing all day?

Hmmmm. Detached house near a failing school, or terraced house near the best school in the area?

Running_Horse

ninky wrote: »

you can no more choose your educational achievement - or anything else for that matter - than you can choose to walk in a straight line after drinking a bottle of vodka.

Or you can choose not to drink the vodka in the first place.

But I do agree in as much as parental choices have a crucial influence on the educational choices made by the child. But even then, I had no choice but to leave school at 16 due to home cirumstances, but chose to get a degree later in life.

Life is hard, but is what you choose to make it, otherwise what's the point?