Notice & S21 Form from LA

sharpee

Ok can someone clarify the S21 form please!

We received a letter from our LA stating

"Please find enclosed Notice requiring pocession in respect to the above property"

Attached in an S21 form stating

"After the end of the period of your tenancy which will next end after the expiration of 2 months from the service of this notice upon you.

Dated 21st June 2011 "

As we are on a Periodic Tenency we assumed it to be giving us 2 months notice as required.

But now after reading other threads I am worried we've interpreted it wrong and have moved out premeturaly.

Help!:eek:

The Form was all sent in time to be received before our rent payment date so all the dates are ok just worried we've read it wrong

Hump

Sounds like you've grasped the hopelessness of your situation pretty well. If you're still in occupation upon the expiry of the notice (so you are still there on the next day after the last day of a period of the tenancy 2 months after you received the notice) the landlord reserves the right to apply to the local county court for a possession order. Assuming your tenancy commenced after April 2007 and you paid a deposit and it's been protected in a scheme i.e. mydeposits etc, then the landlord can't fail to obtain the order - plus they will probably ask the judge to order you to pay the costs of obtaining the order - normally a couple of hundred quid.

Assuming you won't be able to get a new tenancy on a new property to start on the same day as the day your notice expires - and given that you wouldn't want to pay rental on 2 properties - then - the important bit now is to speak to the landlord about their position regarding you leaving before the notice expires. Will they insist on their contractural notice i.e. you having to give 1 month's notice to expire on the last day of a period of the tenancy OR will they be sensible and just charge you upto the day you leave.

Good luck!

franklee

Is that all there was? It's very similar to the "saving clause" in landlordzone's S21 see here albeit with a few words swapped:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/section-21-notices.htm

But there's has that as an OR bit in an attempt to save the notice if the date on the notice is wrong.

I think if you got it before the start of a period (not necessarily the same as rent payment date) then it's giving you notice of the days from service until the day before the next period starts plus two whole periods. But then what the heck is the "Dated 21st June 2011" part about, I can't see where that fits in? Is that the exact and full wording?

Note that a period starts the day after your fixed term ended. So fixed term of say 22nd December to 21st June, gives a periodic tenancy whose first month is 22nd June to 21st July. Often rent will be due by 22nd but not necessarily sometimes rent date is moved to suit pay days or whatever.

G_M

sharpee wrote: »

"After the end of the period of your tenancy which will next end after the expiration of 2 months from the service of this notice upon you.

Dated 21st June 2011 "
What is this 21st June? Is this meant to be the end of the 2 month rental periods? If so, what date did you receive this?
As we are on a Periodic Tenency we assumed it to be giving us 2 months notice as required.

But now after reading other threads I am worried we've interpreted it wrong and have moved out premeturaly. Are you saying you have already moved out?

If you have moved out 'prematurely', when did you move out? Did you give notice?
If you moved out without giving notice, but in advance of the (2 months) notice given by the LL, then you are still liable to pay rent.

may_fair

sharpee wrote: »

Ok can someone clarify the S21 form please!

We received a letter from our LA stating

"Please find enclosed Notice requiring pocession in respect to the above property"

Attached in an S21 form stating

"After the end of the period of your tenancy which will next end after the expiration of 2 months from the service of this notice upon you.

Dated 21st June 2011 "

As we are on a Periodic Tenency we assumed it to be giving us 2 months notice as required.

But now after reading other threads I am worried we've interpreted it wrong and have moved out premeturaly.

Help!:eek:

The Form was all sent in time to be received before our rent payment date so all the dates are ok just worried we've read it wrong

Please tell us:

1. Date fixed term commenced (dd/mm/yy)
2. Length of term, and 'end' date of term if specified
3. When is rent payable - monthly/weekly etc?
4. Date s.21 notice received
5. What does the notice say about expiry - is there an expiry date? If so, please quote exact wording.
6. Did you pay a deposit and, if so, is it protected are were you given the prescribed information.

If you give the above information it will enable us to tell you whether it's likely that the notice is valid or not.

Even if the notice is valid, it is not a notice to quit. It does not end the tenancy nor oblige you to vacate. It just entitles the LL to apply for a possession order after the notice expires.

franklee

Reads to me like the OP has already acted on the notice and moved. If so does it matter if the notice is technically invalid? Can't the OP go ahead and do what the notice asks, if they've moved out early being liable for rent only till the end of the notice period specified in the notice. I don't see a tenant should be liable for a landlord ballsing up (if he has).

may_fair

franklee wrote: »

Reads to me like the OP has already acted on the notice and moved. If so does it matter if the notice is technically invalid? Can't the OP go ahead and do what the notice asks, if they've moved out early being liable for rent only till the end of the notice period specified in the notice. I don't see a tenant should be liable for a landlord ballsing up (if he has).

A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit; whether valid or invalid it doesn't end the tenancy. So, no, OP can't just vacate having been served notice and expect the tenancy/ liability for rent to end at that point. T is liable for rent until the tenancy ends.

franklee

may_fair wrote: »

A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit; whether valid or invalid it doesn't end the tenancy. So, no, OP can't just vacate having been served notice and expect the tenancy/ liability for rent to end at that point. T is liable for rent until the tenancy ends.

Interesting you say valid or invalid.

An an example let's say a LL serves a valid S21 and T vacates at the end of the notice period specified in the S21. Are you saying the tenancy didn't end and T remains liable for rent?

may_fair

franklee wrote: »

Interesting you say valid or invalid.

An an example let's say a LL serves a valid S21 and T vacates at the end of the notice period specified in the S21. Are you saying the tenancy didn't end and T remains liable for rent?

T is liable for rent so long as the tenancy continues.

A.21 notice doesn't end the tenancy (nothing in HA1988 says it does). T vacating doesn't end the tenancy (unless it's at the expiry of fixed term).

jjlandlord

franklee wrote: »

Interesting you say valid or invalid.

An an example let's say a LL serves a valid S21 and T vacates at the end of the notice period specified in the S21. Are you saying the tenancy didn't end and T remains liable for rent?

There's been much debate about that.
It would seem logical that the tenancy ends if the tenant vacates at the end of the notice period. But as it is not explicit in statutes it is open to debate.

In my view, if the tenancy does not end (ie. if landlord refuses the surrender) then it should mean that the s.21 notice has been invalidated and that the landlord has in effect granted a new tenancy.
You cannot at the same time 'require possession' and refuse it when it is offered.

may_fair wrote: »

T is liable for rent so long as the tenancy continues.

A.21 notice doesn't end the tenancy (nothing in HA1988 says it does). T vacating doesn't end the tenancy (unless it's at the expiry of fixed term).

A s.21 does not unilaterally end the tenancy.

sharpee

may_fair wrote: »

Please tell us:

1. Date fixed term commenced (dd/mm/yy)
2. Length of term, and 'end' date of term if specified
3. When is rent payable - monthly/weekly etc?
4. Date s.21 notice received
5. What does the notice say about expiry - is there an expiry date? If so, please quote exact wording.
6. Did you pay a deposit and, if so, is it protected are were you given the prescribed information.

If you give the above information it will enable us to tell you whether it's likely that the notice is valid or not.

Even if the notice is valid, it is not a notice to quit. It does not end the tenancy nor oblige you to vacate. It just entitles the LL to apply for a possession order after the notice expires.

1. Date fixed term commenced: 22/01/2010
2. Length of term, and 'end' date of term: 21/07/2010
3. When is rent payable - monthly on 22nd
4. Date s.21 notice received 15th April 2011
5. What does the notice say about expiry - is there an expiry date? No expiry date
The exact wording is: After the end of the period of your tenancy which will end after the expiration of 2 months from the service of this notice upon you. Dated 21st June 2011
6. Did you pay a deposit: Yes all protected and we were given all the info at the correect times.

We have vacated the property this weekend but know (well thought) we're liable up till the 21st June 2011.

Although now I am thinking we're interpreted the letter incorrectly. If so I will give our months notice and we will just have to pay another months rent.:(

I had a major panic last night and wanted some info before I got the chance to speak to the LA today.

Thanks for all your replies