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Orange upgrades
heya, my contract ended last month, so i rang up the upgrades line and told them that i wanted an iphone 4 but the best deal they could give me was £69.99 for the phone +£35 pcm, whereas vodafone would give a free iphone 4 with on the £35 cpm contract. both contracts 600 minutes unltd text 500mb web + free wifi access.
Following the tips from this forum, told the upgrades guy that id have to leave if they couldnt match it, so he transferred me to disconnections, and even they didnt have any tolerance on the tariffs! not even a discount or anything.
Did anyone had a price droppped on an iphone plan with orange? or do they actually stick to the book? thanks!
Following the tips from this forum, told the upgrades guy that id have to leave if they couldnt match it, so he transferred me to disconnections, and even they didnt have any tolerance on the tariffs! not even a discount or anything.
Did anyone had a price droppped on an iphone plan with orange? or do they actually stick to the book? thanks!
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Comments
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There's very little ley way on iPhone plans, it's Apple that set the prices the network just do what they're told.0
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I don't think they're as intolerant as people say, I just think you need to have a noticeably higher monthly spend.
People say the networks are at Apple's mercy, but I was under the impression that Apple have had nothing to do with the contract side of things since the original 2G iPhone (when they got a monthly cut), and were now like any other manufacturer, but just charging more for the phones...0 -
There's very little ley way on iPhone plans, it's Apple that set the prices the network just do what they're told.
Thats bull - sounds like you've been listening to Orange's excuses too much - no offence i've heard them spout this loads along with a couple of the other networks - its basically hiding behind there poor pricing.
I've heard orange cs people say the same which is stupid because they are basically saying they are colluding to fix the price. I've worked for a manufacturer before and it can be very dodgy about being accused of forming cartels, price fixing abusing your position etc...
You can sell your product to a place at whatever price you both agree to.They can be given a recommended retail price for the product but you can not insist what it is sold on at again - that is their agreement with their customer.
The argument is flawed too. Here's a few more reasons why;
What business in its right mind would relinquish control of its primary revenue source to a third party?
If this really was the case and apple did set the tariff (which they don't) and you was Orange wouldn't you be wondering why as part of the largest consumer mobile telecom group in the UK with the potential to supply more customers then any other rival how the smallest network 3 gets better tariffs given by apple?
Why are all tariffs by all operators different?
If apple had so much control on the networks why are they not forcing them to offer visual voicemail for example or tethering?
Apple apparently don't discount the iPhone when its sold to the networks - and they have no need to because currently its in high demand. Apple gets to set the price each network buys the phones at.
The network then has to put together a contract which covers the outlay of the phone, the costs of providing you service and the costs of given benefits like calls, texts or data. Why would apple care what costs orange or any other network incurred in providing a service to you. Why would any network freely give out this commercially sensative information - they wouldn't.
Ok Orange offer how many tariffs for the iPhone? - say its 20 in total, and then lets as a rough guess suppose other operators have a similar amount (sim only tariffs, 12/18/24 at various price points with various benefits) - does apple spend time and money producing random tariffs for every carrier it supplies iPhones too? That'd be more then 100 in the uk alone, and then times that by the countries its supplied in. Not to mention the contant changing of them!
Either Orange are exceptionally poor negotiators when buying the phones in, they are been that little bit more greedy then a network such as 3 who do manage to supply it for less with better tariffs or the costs base they have means that the margins they have are tighter then for example 3.
I believe that some of the networks in the beginning offered to pay apple a proportion of the monthly spend with an iPhone contract ( I've read this was the case with o2 but who knows and highly doubt it was in place after the loss of exclusivity) but i don't believe that's the case with Orange considering it wasn't the first to get it over here.
Your network can charge whatever price it likes. Whether or not it makes money from that price is a different matter!
Ultimately if its not profitable to supply it for less then the advertised tariffs its far easier to hide behind telling people they supposedly have no control over the costs of their own business!:rotfl:0 -
Did anyone had a price droppped on an iphone plan with orange? or do they actually stick to the book? thanks!
From what they told me both in upgrades & retentions, they are unable to do deals on iPhones as the prices are "set by Apple"
However, when I pushed a very nice lady in orange retentions she said if you have enough "loyalty" then they can either discount the cost of the phone (a little bit) or maybe offer a small discount on the line rental
It very much depends on who you speak to, some Orange advisors are downright unhelpful and couldn't care less if you stayed or on, whereas others couldn't be more helpful and will try everything to get a good deal so you will stay.
Perseverance is key
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Thats bull - sounds like you've been listening to Orange's excuses too much - no offence i've heard them spout this loads along with a couple of the other networks - its basically hiding behind there poor pricing.
I've heard orange cs people say the same which is stupid because they are basically saying they are colluding to fix the price. I've worked for a manufacturer before and it can be very dodgy about being accused of forming cartels, price fixing abusing your position etc...
You can sell your product to a place at whatever price you both agree to.They can be given a recommended retail price for the product but you can not insist what it is sold on at again - that is their agreement with their customer.
The argument is flawed too. Here's a few more reasons why;
What business in its right mind would relinquish control of its primary revenue source to a third party?
If this really was the case and apple did set the tariff (which they don't) and you was Orange wouldn't you be wondering why as part of the largest consumer mobile telecom group in the UK with the potential to supply more customers then any other rival how the smallest network 3 gets better tariffs given by apple?
Why are all tariffs by all operators different?
If apple had so much control on the networks why are they not forcing them to offer visual voicemail for example or tethering?
Apple apparently don't discount the iPhone when its sold to the networks - and they have no need to because currently its in high demand. Apple gets to set the price each network buys the phones at.
The network then has to put together a contract which covers the outlay of the phone, the costs of providing you service and the costs of given benefits like calls, texts or data. Why would apple care what costs orange or any other network incurred in providing a service to you. Why would any network freely give out this commercially sensative information - they wouldn't.
Ok Orange offer how many tariffs for the iPhone? - say its 20 in total, and then lets as a rough guess suppose other operators have a similar amount (sim only tariffs, 12/18/24 at various price points with various benefits) - does apple spend time and money producing random tariffs for every carrier it supplies iPhones too? That'd be more then 100 in the uk alone, and then times that by the countries its supplied in. Not to mention the contant changing of them!
Either Orange are exceptionally poor negotiators when buying the phones in, they are been that little bit more greedy then a network such as 3 who do manage to supply it for less with better tariffs or the costs base they have means that the margins they have are tighter then for example 3.
I believe that some of the networks in the beginning offered to pay apple a proportion of the monthly spend with an iPhone contract ( I've read this was the case with o2 but who knows and highly doubt it was in place after the loss of exclusivity) but i don't believe that's the case with Orange considering it wasn't the first to get it over here.
Your network can charge whatever price it likes. Whether or not it makes money from that price is a different matter!
Ultimately if its not profitable to supply it for less then the advertised tariffs its far easier to hide behind telling people they supposedly have no control over the costs of their own business!:rotfl:
no its true i have iphone 4, apple DOES fix the prices, apple are never competitive, go for a blackberry or something else similar to iphone if you want touch screen.My Signature is MY OWN!!0 -
No its not true. Orange or your network are brainwashing you.
Owning an iPhone 4 or any other model makes no difference.
You really think that this one manufacturer who had never made phones before suddenly told all the operators you can have the phone if we control your business?
Of course apple makes lots of money from their products and the selling price they give the networks but telling a network what tariff to charge you they do not.0 -
I'm afraid it is.
Apple will not have their products discounted or sold for less that they think their worth. There is a 'do not rock the boat' clause in their contracts to ensure that everyone keeps, more or less to the same price.
From the networks point of view the equation is a simple one. Agree to Apples T&C's and sell lots of phones using lots of airtime and data or don't. Not a hard choice for them really.0 -
Cutting through all of this, Orange have made a business decision regarding the potential income they will get from you compared with the cost of supplying you with an Iphone and relevant services.
Vodafone have taken a different viewpoint and can offer a better deal. Assuming that Orange retentions' telephone number isn't being deviated to a "Vodafone black ops" desk where they offer bad Orange deals, then Vodafone have a better deal on offer.
You have a golden opportunity to take your business elsewhere and that's what you should do. Orange lose out - no skin off your nose.0 -
I'm afraid it is.
Apple will not have their products discounted or sold for less that they think their worth. There is a 'do not rock the boat' clause in their contracts to ensure that everyone keeps, more or less to the same price.
From the networks point of view the equation is a simple one. Agree to Apples T&C's and sell lots of phones using lots of airtime and data or don't. Not a hard choice for them really.
Aside from the fact the handset is not the tariff - There are laws as i mentioned about manufactures of any product colluding with distributors or suppliers to set a minimum price level. What is far more likely is that apple sells the phone at a set price which is expensive and the networks pay this and choose to pass that on to their customers.
The handset price is dictated by what price the network pays for it. And FYI networks do sell iPhones cheaper then apple - look at them on Pay and Go. It's because they get locked and the networks are happy to take a £20 or so hit because when its locked you've tied customers to your network (until you pay to unlock where they recoup it back) - apple doesnt stop it or tell them not to charge less then they do on the apple/store website.
The network sets the tariff NOT apple. The price they charge you per month accounts for the costs they have (like staff, network improvements etc) against the freebies they give you like texts, minutes and data and if you take a handset of any model the cost of that is built into the contract. It is the network that decides the proposition to you - they try to make it attractive enough for you to want to use them but will price it to make as much as they can from you.
Whats far more likely is that apple charge the networks a high price for the phones and subsequently to get as much revenue from each customer its margins are tight at the price its offering you, therefore it doesnt want to negotiate on price too much.
Anyone who think apple is setting the tariffs across hundreds of networks across every country the phones supplied in is doesn't understand either how a business works or the laws that are in place.
To be really harsh about it anyone who believes the line their network spins them about 'apple setting the tariff' is stupid.
Discounts are available on iPhone with Orange on the price of the phone and the tariff - these are decided by Orange - it takes into account what the customer is worth to orange based on information such as your monthly spend with them.
You'll get a discount with them depending on how valuable you are to them or how profitable you are to them.
And remember if anyone doesn't like the deal with Orange - its a free market where all the networks are entitled to charge what they like - and they do - go check the price of what £35 gets you on orange v three as an example or why each of the networks charge varying amounts for the phones.0 -
Vodafone have taken a different viewpoint and can offer a better deal. Assuming that Orange retentions' telephone number isn't being deviated to a "Vodafone black ops" desk where they offer bad Orange deals, then Vodafone have a better deal on offer.
You have a golden opportunity to take your business elsewhere and that's what you should do. Orange lose out - no skin off your nose.
In theory this is a great idea :j
The only problem is Vodafone's signal, which in my experience & certainly my area, is poor. Which is probably why Vodafone are undercutting the networks with better coverage.
If you live or work in an area with good Vodafone coverage then brilliant go for it & save a bit of money :money:0
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