Problem with eBay buyer (yet another one!)

paul_caruso

Hi,

I sold something to someone on eBay before Xmas, a legitimate sale via buy it now. - £350.

The buyer emailed to say it didn't work and he'd like to return it for a refund. I got a little confused with eBay's wording, maybe I wasn't concentrating, but they seemed to be saying that I had to refund before getting the item back. (I have obviously subsequently learned that this is not the case at all). It was 23rd Dec and he had about 10,000 positive feedback over a long period of time so I thought "what the hell - I'm sure it'll be fine."

I am sure, but cannot see or prove, that I included the return address with the refund. I may not have.

In the new year, once all the holidays were over I emailed him to ask if he'd returned the item because I hadn't received it. No reply, I emailed a couple more times, no reply. I found the phone number attached to his paypal account, no answer - left a couple of messages. No returned calls. I then found another number at another company he owns by googling his details, and finally spoke to him when he said "It didn't work so I binned it".

I appreciate that possibly when I credited him the money, there was no return address but before I threw away an item - I would at least send an email to check what the seller wants me to do with it.

As far as the item not working, it was a piece of computer hardware with an associated serial number - I needed to transfer ownership to him for him (online) to use it. I explained this to him but he said he'd made other arrangements now. So he was aware that it wasn't broken but needed action from me to work.

Following our dispute he unregistered from eBay.

I have taken him to court via small claims track and have a hearing date. He has ignored attempts by the mediation service to sort it out over the phone.

At this point I'm thinking, I have to travel 200 miles to court, take a day off work to do so, pay a further £55 hearing fee and I really only took him to court to show I was serious about wanting the money back - hoping he would settle out of court.

Am I likely to win? Is it worth bothering. I have to decide today really because I have to send documents and pay the fee. If anyone wants more info let me know.

I realise that it was foolish to refund without the item, that lesson has been learned the hard way - I have previously tried to be fair and it's worked out for the last 10 years on eBay but I've been burned this time. If we could keep replies away from "I told you so" that would be great.

pcombo

lol, Only if all companies and sellers refunded money back to customers if they emailed to say "oh item is broke" and get a refund before the seller even checks it out.

I doubt anything will come of your court claim, Maybe put this down to an expensive lesson learnt.

Or get a couple of heavies and go and kick the !!!! out of the buyer.

pcombo

You only refund someone when you have the goods that YOU sent, in your possessions again no matter what ebay or any site tell you.

How are you to know its damaged.

paul_caruso

I suppose what I'm trying to find out is, however misguided, does my early refund legally prevent me from expecting the item back? Does the lack of initial instruction absolve him of destroying the product?

Is this a cut and dried situation or is it ambiguous and come down to the judge's mood or interpretation on the day?

shaun_from_Africa

Personally, if someone had ripped me off for £350, I wouldn't have any hesitation filing the court papers and finishing the process even if it cost me a bit more money and a day off work.
As you state "I then found another number at another company he owns", I would think that the last thing any company owner/director wants is a CCJ against their name (providing that you win of course).

There are lots of websites offering advice on what to do with uncollected or abandoned goods, and the advice is generally that

if you find yourself in the position of an ' Involuntary Bailee ' there is a procedure which must be followed. It is necessary to show not only that the goods have been abandoned but that there was an intention to abandon. If you destroy goods without being able to show this intention you could be liable for damages in ' conversion '. The Act requires that you take all possible steps to locate and contact the owner of the goods and advise them that the goods will be sold or destroyed if not collected within a reasonable time. If they are still not collected you will be entitled to conclude that they are not required and that the owner has simply abandoned them.

paul_caruso

Thanks Shaun, I do feel like I need to do this out of principle if not for financial reasons.

I just found a section of the Sale of Goods Act that I think is in line with what you've quoted.

Returning the goods
Unless you are required to return the goods, and you were informed of this, your only obligations are to make the goods available for collection and to take reasonable care of them while they are in your possession. This is called a duty of care. Where the supplier has made provision to collect the goods, this duty of care expires after 21 days, but where you have agreed to return the goods, your duty of care continues until you do this and could be for as long as 6 months

While, I'm not 100% confident that I'll win - it's seems worth a shot at the very least.

hcb42

I would take him..

If you take the day off, in small claims, then the judge could award that as well - up to about £50 or something.

We had it a couple of years ago, when a builder tried to rip us off, and HE took us to court for not paying the full amount. we won, and we were awarded about £50 each as we both had to go

wealdroam

OP, can you get the case transferred to your local court?
Not sure what the rules for this are though.

paul_caruso

wealdroam wrote: »

OP, can you get the case transferred to your local court?
Not sure what the rules for this are though.

I think that it cannot be done at this (late) stage and I think at the point where it can be changed that it normally takes place in the defendants local court unless you can come up with a good reason otherwise. From memory I don't think I met the criteria.

techspec

Unfortunately, i would say your refund was the end of the matter and he was no-longer under any obligation to return the item.

Hope i am wrong and you get your court order. If he does not turn up, which is likely - the order should go in your favour.

But then you will have to pay to enforce it.

PZH

techspec wrote: »

Unfortunately, i would say your refund was the end of the matter and he was no-longer under any obligation to return the item.

I would say the opposite..

paul_caruso wrote: »

The buyer emailed to say it didn't work and he'd like to return it for a refund..

It was the buyer himself that acknowledged to return the item in exchange for a refund in the first instance and therefore has a duty of care with regards to the goods.

I think in order to dispose of the item, the buyer should have given notice of disposal and allowed a reasonable time for the OP to collect, arrange pick-up or give permission to dispose of the goods.