Banks don't want my custom it seems

opinions4u

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

No other retailers of products have the arrogance to think their customers need "informed choice".
If I go into the builders merchants to buy a bag of plaster or the garage to have a tyre replaced, I don't get hauled into an "advisers" office to be persuaded about lots of other products they sell.

If I want advice, I ask for it.

I don't think there's any other industry in the UK that is regulated in the same way as financial services.

nilrem_2

smartiedriver wrote: »

Have you thought that perhaps they were trying to make sure you were putting the funds in the best possible place?

Don't always be so convinced that the bankers aren't actually trying to help you!

I am not sure about that TBH most banks are more than happy to keep their customers money in accounts that when opened paid a decent rate then reduced it in some cases down to minuscule levels without advising the customer to move it to a better account!

FWIW I am not blaming the banks; it is after all the customers business to be aware of what their investments are earning and banks are in business to make money the same as other businesses but I don't feel that your reason for refusing to open an account without seeing an advisor is a valid one, banks aren't that helpful!

dwsjarcmcd

Naf wrote: »

but the number of people insisting on using the branch counter is increasing, as is the number of account holders.

Dream on! If the number of people insisting on using counters is increasing it can only be because branches in that town are closing, so same number of people using fewer branches.

The number of branch based savings accounts and balances has been declining for years and only ever increases if there are special branch based offers which are only there to entice people in so they can be cross sold to. These tend not to be available online so as to force people into branches.

If all this customer service was so paramount to banks and building societies (particularly B/S's as they spout about mutuality and treating people better than banks) then why do they rarely offer existing customers account reviews and upgrade the account to one paying more than 0.01% interest? No doubt the bankers will say they do offer account reviews but strangely the older customers get the less likely that is. Difficult to sell a 5 year GEB to a 70 year old.

The real answer is they can't afford to so don't. That's fair enough but it kills the whole customer service arguement for me.

This 'meetin' may be hidden behind regulation but that is a very convenient smokescreen. Customers who want help to open account should be provided that service. People who want help deciding between the various accounts on offer, should be offered that service.

People who just want to open an account they have sourced themself should be able to do so. When you think of it, it is these people who are going to be financially savvy so very difficult to sell to anyway. This would free up more time for the branch staff to help/sell/advise to those that actually want help.

A one size fits all customer service / sales strategy is deeply flawed in my view and will just continue to drive people online.

opinions4u

dwsjarcmcd wrote: »

Dream on! If the number of people insisting on using counters is increasing it can only be because branches in that town are closing, so same number of people using fewer branches.

In many cases branch closures see two branches close and one shinier and bigger branch open. Not always the case, but not unusual either.

The number of branch based savings accounts and balances has been declining for years

The last 5 years or so have seen branch sales of savings accounts increase. Online sales have also increased, as have telelphone sales (although by a much lower percentage).

If all this customer service was so paramount to banks and building societies (particularly B/S's as they spout about mutuality and treating people better than banks) then why do they rarely offer existing customers account reviews and upgrade the account to one paying more than 0.01% interest?

One of the most common posts on here is "my bank has asked me in for a review". One of the most common responses is "they're just trying to sell you something - don't attend". Yet one common outcome of such reviews is "move your savings from this 0.1% taxable account to this 3.0% tax free account". Sometimes the bank can't win, can they?

No doubt the bankers will say they do offer account reviews but strangely the older customers get the less likely that is. Difficult to sell a 5 year GEB to a 70 year old.

Most banks and building socieities don't offer GEBS, or only have them as an occasional option. Older people can be great to chat to as well - they still have a need for current accounts, credit cards etc and there have been many times where I've been able to save somebody £hundreds on their home insurance when they haven't changed provider in 30 years.

So Granny could do all her banking with Nat West - same account she's had for donkey's years, have £5,000 in a 0.05% savings account with Halifax and insure with Aviva (an old Commercial Union policy from 1978 that she's always renewed without question).

She could accept the invitiation for a "review" with Halifax and walk out with a current account that pays her £5 a month, a credit card that pays her £5 a month, a savings account that earns her £150+ a year more and an insurance bill that's £200 a year less for better cover.

A one size fits all customer service / sales strategy is deeply flawed in my view and will just continue to drive people online.

Regulators usually set out with good intentions. The outcome is rarely satisfactory for customer or bank / building society in my view.

But, left to their own devices, most of the UK population is incapable of choosing the best financial products for their circumstances.

le_loup

opinions4u wrote: »

But, left to their own devices, most of the UK population is incapable of choosing the best financial products for their circumstances.

Really sad, but true. Look at the volume of new posters who come here without ANY sort of clue and asking the most naive of questions ... and that in the days of the Internet. Shameful.

dwsjarcmcd

In many cases branch closures see two branches close and one shinier and bigger branch open. Not always the case, but not unusual either.

True but not the norm and may have come about by mergers. Reality is there are less branches

The last 5 years or so have seen branch sales of savings accounts increase. Online sales have also increased, as have telelphone sales (although by a much lower percentage).

That's because savings generally have increased but online will have outpaced the other channels significantly both in terms of volume and particularly value.

One of the most common posts on here is "my bank has asked me in for a review". One of the most common responses is "they're just trying to sell you something - don't attend". Yet one common outcome of such reviews is "move your savings from this 0.1% taxable account to this 3.0% tax free account". Sometimes the bank can't win, can they?

If this was true, why don't they just say it. I'm all for that type of review and I have no problem if they try to upsell at the same time. Why do people ask what the review is for on here?

Most banks and building socieities don't offer GEBS, or only have them as an occasional option

.

Yes they do. Look at all the relationships with Credt Suise and before that the much missed Key Data. It was sales of that type of product that saw the demise of the Norwich & Peterborough

Older people can be great to chat to as well - they still have a need for current accounts, credit cards etc and there have been many times where I've been able to save somebody £hundreds on their home insurance when they haven't changed provider in 30 years.

Agreed and probably for those 30 years her home insurance was with her bank

So Granny could do all her banking with Nat West - same account she's had for donkey's years, have £5,000 in a 0.05% savings account with Halifax and insure with Aviva (an old Commercial Union policy from 1978 that she's always renewed without question).

She could accept the invitiation for a "review" with Halifax and walk out with a current account that pays her £5 a month, a credit card that pays her £5 a month, a savings account that earns her £150+ a year more and an insurance bill that's £200 a year less for better cover.

I couldn't agree more and that is what it should be.


I actually think you and I agree on what this should look like but maybe I am a bit more cynical. Maybe that comes from running a branch network in a past life

p.s. first time trying this multi quote thing!

opinions4u

dwsjarcmcd wrote: »

True but not the norm and may have come about by mergers. Reality is there are less branches

No arguments there. But the capacity of the newer branches tends to be bigger than that of the old. They handle more customers.

That's because savings generally have increased but online will have outpaced the other channels significantly both in terms of volume and particularly value.

Online savings is something of an enigma for the banks. Granted, they provide a cheaper way of reaching the customer, but they are also more likely to reach the clued up rate tart, so the perceived wisdom that online is a more profitable channel that can afford to pay higher rates isn't necessarily true. From my experience, a provider with a traditional high street presence will open more savings accounts in branch than online.

Additionally, the number of transactions (money in / out etc) in branches has remained stubbornly high, despite bank efforts to encourage people to use technology more.

If this was true, why don't they just say it. I'm all for that type of review and I have no problem if they try to upsell at the same time. Why do people ask what the review is for on here?

It's all about positioning. Some staff aren't the clever at positioning it well, others are. If you tell a customer "we'll review your savings account" and then start talking insurance, it feels uneasy. If you position it as "we'll review your finances, see how we can make you better off and sort out this savings account too" it's an easier opt in for the customer.

Not forgetting that the customer is quite within their rights to say no. I do most of my financial buying online because I think I know my stuff (most of the time). I'm far more likely to ask the grey haired bloke in B&Q for advice on DIY needs because I'm clueless on that side of things though!

Yes they do. Look at all the relationships with Credt Suise and before that the much missed Key Data. It was sales of that type of product that saw the demise of the Norwich & Peterborough

Most banks and building societies are not offering GEBs at present. I've just looked at web sites for Halifax, Nat West, Barclays, Lloyds, Skipton, KRBS and Nationwide. The latter have a "Protected Equity Bond" which is marketed under investments rather than savings - but can be bought off the shelf online or in branch. I can't see any GEBS offered by the others.

I actually think you and I agree on what this should look like but maybe I am a bit more cynical. Maybe that comes from running a branch network in a past life

Cynicism ahead of buying anything is a positive trait - as long as it doesn't end up with a refusal to buy anything!

p.s. first time trying this multi quote thing!

Result!

Naf

opinions4u wrote: »

In many cases branch closures see two branches close and one shinier and bigger branch open. Not always the case, but not unusual either.

dwsjarcmcd wrote: »

True but not the norm and may have come about by mergers. Reality is there are less branches

opinions4u wrote: »

No arguments there. But the capacity of the newer branches tends to be bigger than that of the old. They handle more customers.

Most banks are closing branches left right and centre; Lloyds and Halifax have closed loads of agencies and local branches; sold off to Santander. Also there's the sale of hundreds of RBS branches going through. While most banks are struggling to find the money to run enough branches to serve their customers properly, Santander are snapping them up.

opinions4u wrote: »

Additionally, the number of transactions (money in / out etc) in branches has remained stubbornly high, despite bank efforts to encourage people to use technology more.

More population, more accounts, more accounts per person (as they spread them about), people getting wealthier... The amount of branch transactions isn't increasing anywhere near as much as you'd expect considering all that because more people are using e-banking, ATMs, telephone banking... Considering the competition, and pressure from customers to offer higher and higher rates on savings but lower and lower rates on lending, banks' margins are slim so it's no wonder branches close; especially while HSBC, Lloyds, HBOS still manage millions in fat cat bonuses.

opinions4u wrote: »

The last 5 years or so have seen branch sales of savings accounts increase. Online sales have also increased, as have telelphone sales (although by a much lower percentage).

opinions4u wrote: »

Online savings is something of an enigma for the banks. Granted, they provide a cheaper way of reaching the customer, but they are also more likely to reach the clued up rate tart, so the perceived wisdom that online is a more profitable channel that can afford to pay higher rates isn't necessarily true. From my experience, a provider with a traditional high street presence will open more savings accounts in branch than online.

Many people don't like accounts that can only be transacted online, or the fact they have to post ID, or the wait before the account is opened. Branches offer it all in one place, and the account is available to transact immediately. Plus the advisers know how to best help you get them most from the accounts.

opinions4u wrote: »

One of the most common posts on here is "my bank has asked me in for a review". One of the most common responses is "they're just trying to sell you something - don't attend". Yet one common outcome of such reviews is "move your savings from this 0.1% taxable account to this 3.0% tax free account". Sometimes the bank can't win, can they?

opinions4u wrote: »

It's all about positioning. Some staff aren't the clever at positioning it well, others are. If you tell a customer "we'll review your savings account" and then start talking insurance, it feels uneasy. If you position it as "we'll review your finances, see how we can make you better off and sort out this savings account too" it's an easier opt in for the customer.

Its also about rapport. The customer needs to appreciate that the person in front of them does want to make sure they get the best savings rate, and the most suitable account. Banks aren't full of the types of dodgy sell-for-the-sake-of-selling types that the likes of phones4u employ; even if it weren't so closely regulated they'd still only want the best for their customers. Unfortunately, perception means that the first stage is helping the customer get out of their own way so they understand that. Its a completely normal occurrence that a customer sits with an adviser just to update a savings account that's dropped in % and leaves over the moon with a credit card, savings bond and having brought another large sum from lower % savings elsewhere. Not because of any particularly good or persuasive sales pitch, just because the products are a match to the customer's needs, will save/make them more money than they do currently and they were made aware of them, when they otherwise would not have found out. That is why banks will try and recommend a customer sits for a review as opposed to picking from a brochure, because:

opinions4u wrote: »

left to their own devices, most of the UK population is incapable of choosing the best financial products for their circumstances.

PLUS, often people don't even realise they need something until its use is pointed out. I see many people that say 'no' at the first mention of credit, but when explained that they can have increased security on their spending abroad without the cost associated with using most credit/debit cards overseas, and still only be spending the money they originally intended to exchange and take with them in the first place; they warm to the concept of the credit card we can offer.

opinions4u wrote: »

Most banks and building socieities don't offer GEBS, or only have them as an occasional option.

dwsjarcmcd wrote: »

Yes they do. Look at all the relationships with Credt Suise and before that the much missed Key Data. It was sales of that type of product that saw the demise of the Norwich & Peterborough

opinions4u wrote: »

Most banks and building societies are not offering GEBs at present. I've just looked at web sites for Halifax, Nat West, Barclays, Lloyds, Skipton, KRBS and Nationwide. The latter have a "Protected Equity Bond" which is marketed under investments rather than savings - but can be bought off the shelf online or in branch. I can't see any GEBS offered by the others.

Santander have been offering them consistently for years; called Guaranteed Growth Plans. Deposited funds are totally protected, and a small return is totally guaranteed. A higher return is paid as long as the FTSE is at a higher/same value on the day the account matures than the day the account started. This particular model may have been altered slightly for the current product (guaranteed minimum 2.5% return, plus more if market rises), I only just heard about the new offer today...

p-ch1982

if they laid eveybody with their £100 or not interested in people's money, they would have to close their branches all over wouldn't they??? it just depend where you live i think.

regard
Niro

opinions4u

Naf wrote: »

Most banks are closing branches left right and centre; Lloyds and Halifax have closed loads of agencies and local branches; sold off to Santander.

The Halifax agency network accounted for about 3% of the business. Many of the agents were under severe financial pressures anyway and were struggling to remain open. The number of agents had dropped from over 3,000 in the 1980s to less than 300 before the closures were announced. It merely confirmed the final breaths of a slow death.

Which branches have Lloyds sold to Santander? Not familiar with that one.

Also there's the sale of hundreds of RBS branches going through. While most banks are struggling to find the money to run enough branches to serve their customers properly, Santander are snapping them up.

There is an irony here. RBS didn't want to sell those branches, they were forced to by the EU as a punishment for needing state support.

Over the next few years I'd expect Santander to close half their network. In my view it makes absolute sense for them to do that. Watch the press exploit it for headlines though. Guaranteed.

especially while HSBC, Lloyds, HBOS still manage millions in fat cat bonuses.

So Santander don't pay bonuses? I suppose they prefer nepotism of appointing the chairman's daughter to run their UK business.

Santander have been offering them consistently for years; called Guaranteed Growth Plans. Deposited funds are totally protected, and a small return is totally guaranteed. A higher return is paid as long as the FTSE is at a higher/same value on the day the account matures than the day the account started. This particular model may have been altered slightly for the current product (guaranteed minimum 2.5% return, plus more if market rises), I only just heard about the new offer today...

These products when sold by Santander (and others) are generally shocking value. Santander often market them alongside an inflated term deposit product to lure customers in.

The current offer pays 12% over 5 and a half years, or half the return of the FTSE if higher. I'm sorry, there is no way I'm tying my money up for that long for 2.08% AER (or 1.57% for the shorter term version). It's horrible.

I highlight your use of the word guaranteed. The key facts document page 11 clarifies that the product doesn't even have the FSCS protection that a "normal" saver would expect.

So the customer waves goodbye to normal FSCS protection, gives up a good 2.5%-3.0% a year of interest - all in the hope of getting just half of the growth in the FTSE? Dreadful product.