Banks don't want my custom it seems

Naf

Rollinghome wrote: »

I'm appreciative that none of them tapped the taxpayer to be bailed out.

Santander and Barclays didn't either thank you very much.

Rollinghome wrote: »

The banks, and their staff, still seem unable to come to terms with their new mass market role. There’s still far too much arrogance and they’ve yet to grasp that in retail the customers have a choice and are there to be pleased.

In the instance that this thread started with there was nobody available to do so, and there's nothing that could be implemented or changed to do so. Not having an adviser free when someone hasn't pre-booked an appointment isn't poor service. Don't get me wrong, its not ideal, but it doesn't constitute a poor level of service on the part of the bank any more than it would with a solicitor, doctor, hospital, IFA etc. etc. etc.

Rollinghome wrote: »

I’m afraid it’s for the banks to learn how to run their own businesses, it’s not our job to tell them, unless of course they want to employ me as a consultant.

We have, and have had it set for a few hundred years. Its you who are deciding you want it differently, but if you can't decide how you want it, you won't get it. It'll only change based on customer opinion, but as so many customers disagree and the changes suggested by one group would incense the other its going nowhere.
An appointment system reigns, and works for the vast majority because, sensibly, they appreciate that nowhere can have an infinite number of staff or advisers, and there will always be more people wanting to see them than there are of them however many you employ. Thus, pre-booking is the sensible way to go. If you choose not to do this, and are disappointed then I'm (slightly) sorry, but it's not the bank's fault you lost out.

Tribulation

Naf wrote: »

We're not comparing ourselves to degree-qualified professionals, but the system of booking an appointment works just the same way. Even a solicitor will see you without appointment if they are free to do so, but nobody can see you if nobody is free; its that simple. If there wasn't an appointment system we'd be having an argument about not being able to book an appointment instead.
As I said if you, as customers, can't get it straight in your heads what you want the banks to (reasonably) do, how on earth will they ever be able to.

But what we're complaining about is that we should simply be able to go up to the counter and open one, we shouldn't have to see a financial advisor. I understand the need for an appointment to see a financial advisor but I really don't understand why bank clerks aren't qualified enough to open accounts.

I would also strongly argue a solicitor, dentist etc are professional occupations requiring years of study, degrees etc. You might need more training now for a financial advisor that a few years ago, but you also need a few years to be fully qualified as a travel agent etc. You cant compare a FA with a dentist, gp or solicitor and are kidding yourselves if you think you can.

An FA is basically a sales person and in the vast majority of cases sell things at a balance to give the customer something suitable for them while getting as much payment/commission as possible. I have yet to see one when opening an account etc that didn't simply try to get me to take credit cards etc.

Note, I'm not saying a FA isn't a worthwhile job, I'm simply saying people should book to see one if they feel the need, otherwise there really shouldn't be a need, same as with an insurance salesman etc

noh

The problem is the banks insistence that customers see an adviser before opening a savings account in branch.
For many it is totally unnecessary.
That policy has the effect of discouraging people from visting a branch in favour of using other channels such as the internet or post where no interference is made in their account opening. This probably is an intended consequence.
Another effect is that it discourages those such as the original poster who are perhaps less confident from ever opening a savings account.

noh

Naf wrote: »

.....................................
they appreciate that nowhere can have an infinite number of staff or advisers, and there will always be more people wanting to see them than there are of them however many you employ. Thus, pre-booking is the sensible way to go. If you choose not to do this, and are disappointed then I'm (slightly) sorry, but it's not the bank's fault you lost out.

A large number do not want to see the advisers. It is the banks policy that is forcing them to do so.
If if wasn't for this policy the OP would have been able to open their chosen account when they visited the branch.

Tribulation

Naf wrote: »

I agree; so all of the advisers were busy opening account for other new customers: where's the poor service?

The poor service is that years ago the bank counter staff were properly trained and could open an account for us. Now we have to sit in a room where we simply waste around 30 - 60 mins of out time saying NO every time you try to get us to apply for credit cards etc.

And anyway banks aren't 'off the shelf' retail stores, so making a comparison between somewhere like Argos or a supermarket just doesn't really apply.

And making a comparison between a profession like GP's, Dentists, Doctors etc also doesn't apply for the same reason.

What then; all the offices in my branch are full already (and we have quite a few)

I remember when I opened my first bank account at Midland when I was 18, went up to the counter, paid in some money and opened an account by the very very knowledgeable bank counter staff. They also had most the windows filled with staff whenever I went in there.

Then there was the midland bank up the road from where I worked, again fully staffed counters.

These weren't branches in a busy town centre.

Maybe, just maybe if banks weren't so fixated with selling us stuff we don't need or want, they could get rid of half their FA's and replace them with needed counter staff, who get proper training in all aspects of things like they used to.

Ultimately, to continue to exist the banks, like all businesses, have to balance their staff across the whole week to offer as much service they can every day.

Any customer over the age of about 30 knows how crap the banks are now compared to the personal service we used to receive. Banks have become all about making big money fast for shareholders etc, the people making the money don't give a dam about the bank or it's customers, they probably wont even be there in 5 years time, they would have moved on elsewhere.

More staff are generally in on a Saturday; yesterday not a single person had a day off in my branch as we knew it would be extremely busy; but we are obliged (by the union) to give staff at least one Saturday off in four.

How many counters do you have, and how many of them were fully staffed for the vast majority of the time?

I'll keep saying it 'till you listen; did you complain last time you went to your doctors' surgery and were told to make an appointment, or the last time you turned up at the hospital and were told they couldn't just book you in for whatever procedure you took a fancy to this time, or the last time your dentist told you they didn't have a space for the next couple of months or insisted you wouldn't need another general check up for around six months. Or maybe (/probably) none of you have ever done any of those things in the first place to be able to make a complaint, because you already know that this is the way the system works.

First I'll refer you to my response earlier in this thread when you said we cant compare Argos etc to a bank, ie you cant compare a bank to a GP.

Second, if I have a need to see a GP, I can see them on that day, I have never had a problem and if I did, yes I would complain. Obviously if I want say a vaccination for a holiday etc then I will book an appointment for a day that suits me, again never had a problem,.

When I've had bad toothache and phoned my dentist at 9am, they saw me at 10:30, again zero complaints.

If I want to make an appointment to see a FA for advice then yes I expect to make one. If I need to open a savings account and know what I want, I don't expect to have to see a FA and as I and others have already said, every time I've been made to see a FA so far, it's been complete waste of my time where I'm simply being used to try and sell stuff to.

So what you are really saying is that I should expect to have to make an appointment for something I don't want or need so that you can try to sell me stuff I don't want or need, then you compare that with a GP?

I want to stress I think financial advisers are a worthwhile profession, I also thing dustmen are, I also think travel agents, shop assistants, insurance salespeople, police, fire brigade, call centre staff etc etc etc all are worthwhile jobs. I'm not saying you are beneath a GP, I'm simply saying the study needed to become a GP etc is incomparable to the study required to become a FA

I'm currently using an FA at this very moment to re-mortgage. I'm glad he's there, he's been very very very helpful to me. But I contacted him telling him what sort of mortgage I wanted, and he came back with various options.

Last time I re-mortgaged, the FA made an appointment to come around my house, again, I WANTED to see him and was more than willing to do so.

Both times it's been independent FA's and both times my experiences have been NOTHING like the numerous times I've been forced over the past 15 odd years to make an appointment, take time off work, and see the bank/building society's own FA. Every time the banks forced me to, it's been a waste of time with someone trying to pile credit cards etc on me that I didn't ask for or want, every time I've used independent FA's when I've wanted to, they've been very very very helpful and I haven't been able to fault them.

I'd been interested to know how many non bank employees reading this thread that have been made to see a FA before opening an account, have had similar experiences to me?

I also remember seeing an undercover report on the banks a few years ago, think it was Barclays, where the way the staff were treated was horrendous, they were effectively bullied (if they wanted to keep their jobs) to sell customers crap they didn't need.

Tribulation

smartiedriver wrote: »

Cash cow - you seem very down on bankers. Have you thought that perhaps they were trying to make sure you were putting the funds in the best possible place? The majority of clients I see have no idea of the range of products available to them, and frequently deposit monies into ISAs only to take them out a month later and thus lose their tax-free allowances.

Don't always be so convinced that the bankers aren't actually trying to help you!

We speak from what we've experienced. I tried to pay in a check for 17K into the Alliance and Leicester about 10 years ago, they simply wouldn't let me pay it in without making an appointment (which I cancelled the following day) to speak to their FA. I can remember the counter girls exact words,

"Do you have one of our credit cards"

me: "no"

her "You soon will"

The fact that the money was already spent, wasn't to save, was money from a re-mortgage to fund something went completely above her.

Or more recently, before I got so sick that I moved from Lloyds to Natwest, every few months I would get phone calls from Lloyds asking me to make an appointment to come in and discuss my account. I said no every time except once, as I was going to the bank anyway that week, and wondered whether things had changed at all.

All it was was do I want a credit card, had I got any savings, did I want to change my current account to another one where I get discounts on stuff I don't use.

Tribulation

Naf wrote: »

A bank's first duty to it's customers is to protect its own bottom line; after all, if the bank goes under, the customers all lose out. This means that they can't keep paying out to customers for claims over loss of interest, incorrect advice or being disadvantaged by the type of account they took. The number of complaints that come because people don't open their post (and didn't listen in the first place when they were told the rate would last on for the first year), so they don't read the notice about a drop in interest and recommending they come to branch to discuss alternative options, so they end up on a low rate; then decide this is the bank's fault. Most people (and to be fair, its probably not the majority of people on here because on here people are generally clued up [that's why you're here after all]) don't really understand how to make the most of their money, or how the accounts work. They need someone to filter their options and explain how the accounts will actually help them.

Why is it then that the same people can fill in a simple on-line form to open current/savings accounts and that is perfectly acceptable.

Simply doesn't add up.

Naf

Tribulation wrote: »

The poor service is that years ago the bank counter staff were properly trained and could open an account for us. Now we have to sit in a room where we simply waste around 30 - 60 mins of out time saying NO every time you try to get us to apply for credit cards etc.

but the number of people insisting on using the branch counter is increasing, as is the number of account holders. Many banks already have a n issue with the length of time customers have to spend queuing and you want to increase this further still? Counter staff are properly trained to process your transactions, and some can sometimes do account openings. But when an average transaction takes under two minutes to process, and you want to lump them with a half-hour opening; are you prepared to stand in the queue while all the customers in front of you open accounts? I'm certainly not.

Tribulation wrote: »

And making a comparison between a profession like GP's, Dentists, Doctors etc also doesn't apply for the same reason.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe they also work an appointment system? Mine definitely do, don't know about yours. I keep saying that I'm not comparing the professions, just the appointment booking system.

Tribulation wrote: »

How many counters do you have, and how many of them were fully staffed for the vast majority of the time?

5 counters; all staffed staffed 10-3, 4 staffed all day. Same situation every day.

Tribulation wrote: »

if I have a need to see a GP, I can see them on that day, I have never had a problem and if I did, yes I would complain. Obviously if I want say a vaccination for a holiday etc then I will book an appointment for a day that suits me, again never had a problem,.

When I've had bad toothache and phoned my dentist at 9am, they saw me at 10:30, again zero complaints.

Lucky you; but your complaint would go nowhere if you tried. My doctor's is generally booked for around a week, dentist for weeks or even months.

Tribulation wrote: »

If I want to make an appointment to see a FA for advice then yes I expect to make one. If I need to open a savings account and know what I want, I don't expect to have to see a FA and as I and others have already said, every time I've been made to see a FA so far, it's been complete waste of my time where I'm simply being used to try and sell stuff to.

So what you are really saying is that I should expect to have to make an appointment for something I don't want or need so that you can try to sell me stuff I don't want or need, then you compare that with a GP?

Lets make something clear; no bank will make you see and FA for opening a bank account, or basic cash savings account, and the FAs won't try and sell you a credit card but are legally obliged to understand your circumstances regarding savings, mortgage, life insurance before they can give you any account.
What you are (almost) all complaining about are Banking Advisers, and in bank branches these are the only people who can open the accounts. For the sake of customer service, as counter transactions have increased over the years and the amount of regulation and legal requirements for account openings increased, banks began to train two different types of service staff; some on the counter and some to open the accounts. No other way the system works.

Tribulation wrote: »

We speak from what we've experienced. I tried to pay in a check for 17K into the Alliance and Leicester about 10 years ago, they simply wouldn't let me pay it in without making an appointment (which I cancelled the following day) to speak to their FA. I can remember the counter girls exact words,

"Do you have one of our credit cards"

me: "no"

her "You soon will"

Clearly that's just awful customer service and I can't see anyone disagreeing. But that's not policy, and nowhere could ever apply that policy; can only be the individual on the counter, and I can't see them having kept their job long.

Tribulation wrote: »

Why is it then that the same people can fill in a simple on-line form to open current/savings accounts and that is perfectly acceptable.

Simply doesn't add up.

It's acceptable because you haven't seen anyone and so the onus is automatically on you to ensure the account is right. The moment you implicate another person the field is opened up (as pointed out previously) for complaints about advice that people never received, even though they chose not to do so. Complaints which the FSA uphold.

noh

It's acceptable because you haven't seen anyone and so the onus is automatically on you to ensure the account is right. The moment you implicate another person the field is opened up (as pointed out previously) for complaints about advice that people never received, even though they chose not to do so. Complaints which the FSA uphold.

But many customers don't want to see someone. It is the bank that is forcing them to. They wan't to walk in and open the account.
Can you point to any evidence of the FSA upholding complaints about advice that was never given when a savings account was opened on a non advice basis?
You seem to be saying the way your employer does it is the only way it can be done.

How about having a couple of self service terminals in branch which the customer can walk in and use to apply for an account without having to suffer the annoyance of having to make and appointment and speaking with a "Banking Adviser" ?

Counter staff are properly trained to process your transactions, and some can sometimes do account openings. But when an average transaction takes under two minutes to process, and you want to lump them with a half-hour opening; are you prepared to stand in the queue while all the customers in front of you open accounts?

If it takes 30 minutes to open an account then there is something wrong with the process.

System

No other retailers of products have the arrogance to think their customers need "informed choice".
If I go into the builders merchants to buy a bag of plaster or the garage to have a tyre replaced, I don't get hauled into an "advisers" office to be persuaded about lots of other products they sell.

If I want advice, I ask for it.