Damage deposit question

Mrs_pbradley936

The reason this thread is buzzing is because I put a link on Eagerlearner’s thread to this one. Eagerlearner was ripped off for the whole of her deposit by a dreadful landlady and a dubious agent. I thought the two cases warranted comparison. But my comments on this case would be forget the whole thing and move on. I have been letting several properties for many years and some tenants are slobs and never clean anything while others leave the place spotless. Most fall in between the two extremes.

The point is if you find this incident distressing you should get out of the property business or you will have a breakdown within no time. Wait till you get a slob that trashes the place and does not pay the rent! My worse tenants were nurses – I thought I had two but had about ten (some were hospital porters) they were all doing shift work and rotating the beds. They allowed a pan to boil dry and then put the hot pan on the work surface and burned two eight inch circles in a new worktop. I could not charge them for new worktops had to cover the damage with rather nice cutting boards.

prudryden

Alan_M wrote:

Then define wear and tear if scuffing wallpaper when moving in or out isn't covered under the umbrella?

The worktops situation dpends on the extent of the damage, if they are deep scores or light scratches, the OP didn't post an image of that "damage".

Whether or not you make a profit , whilst its very relevant to you, bears no relevance to the definition of wear and tear.

This is not the Alan I know. Just what is this legal definition and precedant on FAIR (you keep forgetting to put that word in) WEAR AND TEAR??

Comparing torn wall paper with car keys is, to say the least, a blind stab in the dark to find any kind of analogy. At least get one a little closer to the subject.

Replacing one wall so it looks as one is not betterment. It is just putting it back like it was before the daft tenant moved in. If someone cracked one of those stone countertops you sell and you couldn't match a section, the person would want a whole new countertop. I certainly would not want one with a different shades of granite at one end.

Alan_M_2

pbradley936 wrote:

The reason this thread is buzzing is because I put a link on Eagerlearner’s thread to this one. Eagerlearner was ripped off for the whole of her deposit by a dreadful landlady and a dubious agent. I thought the two cases warranted comparison. But my comments on this case would be forget the whole thing and move on. I have been letting several properties for many years and some tenants are slobs and never clean anything while others leave the place spotless. Most fall in between the two extremes.

The point is if you find this incident distressing you should get out of the property business or you will have a breakdown within no time. Wait till you get a slob that trashes the place and does not pay the rent! My worse tenants were nurses – I thought I had two but had about ten (some were hospital porters) they were all doing shift work and rotating the beds. They allowed a pan to boil dry and then put the hot pan on the work surface and burned two eight inch circles in a new worktop. I could not charge them for new worktops had to cover the damage with rather nice cutting boards.

I wholly agree with this post.

Out of curiosity why could you not charge them for the worktops?

paulsm

I wont have a breakdown dont worry, but I would rather the deposit stayed with the LA than let the tenant get their clumsy hands on it. As for your nurses you should have spotted it in your routine visits.

Alan_M_2

prudryden wrote:

This is not the Alan I know. Just what is this legal definition and precedant on FAIR (you keep forgetting to put that word in) WEAR AND TEAR??

Comparing torn wall paper with car keys is, to say the least, a blind stab in the dark to find any kind of analogy. At least get one a little closer to the subject.

Replacing one wall so it looks as one is not betterment. It is just putting it back like it was before the daft tenant moved in. If someone cracked one of those stone countertops you sell and you couldn't match a section, the person would want a whole new countertop. I certainly would not want one with a different shades of granite at one end.

The thing is in my younger years I used to deal with this nonsence when I was employed in the insurance industry.

Lets take your example of the stone top, in this case whoever broke the piece would be liable to replace that one piece only, that is all an insurer would pay for and all a court would enforce, whether or not the new piece matches the rest is actually irrelevant.

The wallpaper, scenario again is the damaged area only would be covered in the event of any claim.

Harsh but true, and the courst base their precidents on the numerous cases that have been dragged through the courts by the insurers. This may not seem reasonable but it's how it all works unfortunately. I thought the keys analagy was quite reasonable actually.

pbradley's post sums this thread up nicely, if you're going get uptight about a scuff on a wall and some scratches to a worktop when the rest of the property has been left in reasonable condition, you'll be getting stomch ulcers pretty quickly.

prudryden

Alan - that may be true for your insurance company, but not for mine. I had part of a ceiling come down because a tenant left her sock in the door of a first floor flat washing machine and brought down part of the ceiling and water damaged one wall. The inspector came out and said to replace the ceiling and repaint ALL the walls because you can not repaint one wall and not the others. And that was Norwich Union.
In addition, the contents insurer replaced the whole carpet, not just the wet bit. They also came out for an inspection and took pictures.
I have plenty other examples if everyone has time.

Mrs_pbradley936

Alan_M wrote:

I wholly agree with this post.

Out of curiosity why could you not charge them for the worktops?

Because the whole of the worktop would need to be changed which would be about 12 ft long and they did not damage all of it! Since I did not want to cut out and patch the worktop I left it and covered it with boards.

Mrs_pbradley936

paulsm wrote:

I wont have a breakdown dont worry, but I would rather the deposit stayed with the LA than let the tenant get their clumsy hands on it. As for your nurses you should have spotted it in your routine visits.

I gave them Notice after my first inspection!

paulsm

the rest of the flat was dirty and stank , and he smoked in there as well even though I stated no somokers or am I not allowed to discriminate against smokers now. I filled a large dent in one wall and painted it , cleaned all scuffs off the walls , bleached the crap out of the toilet , dumped the chair he couldnt be bothered to take away with him , I postponed the moving in date 3 times when he !!!!ed me about so I have given my share , so the least he could have done is move out with some care. I just hope he puts me as a reference.He will have an ulcer before me as he was in the LA ranting this afternoon with his dad

prudryden

It cost just about the same to replace a section of one of those MDF countertops as a 12 footer. You can't buy sections, you have to buy the whole lot. I had the same thing happen to one of my flats, I charged the tenants for the whole top plus the labour at £7.50/hour. It wasn't very expensive at all (max. £150) and the tenants were very happy that it was so low. Didn't charge them for any other damage as they were minor. But they did pay for a professional cleaning team to come in and left the place as good as they got it initially. I'm still in touch with them today and even told one of them he could leave his motorbike in my garage over winter.