nans gone to a care home, , ,

poppysarah

hmv465 wrote: »

Sadly my Nanna has been diagnosed with a kind of dementia.
My sister now has power of attourney,

Nan has had to go in a care home.
cost is 45o per week.
Had she just need personal care I could of finished work and done this, however she has some occasional night 'do's' and needs 24/7 care.

she has saving of 20k
and a house worth 65k.

if she never had a house or savings, the goverment would ensure her care was paid for in this lovely home we have secured so far.
however
she has the house and savings.

Ive heard she must be left with 14k. for herself.

the house was left to our dad in the will. and cash to us.

What did the will say? Was the transfer made? Was the house his to give?


yes the govt pays if you have nothing - but increasingly they are unable to do so - at some point in the next few years care will be utterly minimal - the cost of it is enormous and taxes will have to go up to pay for it.

You should do and see a solicitor.
There is nothing to stop you buying the house - put it on the market and see whether your offer is better than anyone elses.

However if the govt didn't fund care at all - what would you do? Of course you would want your gran to be looked after well.

She will have her pension too surely? She will have no heating bills, no council tax, etc so she will not be as destitute as you think even when she gets down to £14k.

A solicitor can advise HER on what she can do with HER money and HER house.

LOOK AWAY IF YOU'RE SQUEAMIST:
Her funeral costs can be paid in advance - morbid - but you can arrange every detail of it in advance which takes the stress out of the death when it happens.

Your family will also get any remaining monies after she is dead. Would you rather you waited until she was dead to pick over the money. Bear in mind many family fueds are over wills and property at this point in somone elses life...

margaretclare

What income has your Grandmother got? Income I mean, not savings or assets in the form of house property.

If she is on full state pension plus Attendance Allowance at full rate (she needs attention by night as well as by day) then this should amount to almost £200 a week. She can keep some of that as 'pocket money' and I admit, I'm guessing at the actual figures. But those amounts alone will make a dent in the weekly charges you're quoting. And no, it's not true that your Grandmother will 'see none of this'. She's getting a service. A bit like when you go away on holiday. You pay at either 5 star rates or the cheapest B&B. Meals, cleaning, laundry, someone there all the time - you get what you pay for.

poppysarah

Londonsu wrote: »

It really annoys me when people say this dont you think that the OPs nan and her (presumably) deceased grandad have also been tax payers in their time..

Sadly that tax they paid was paying for the NHS, and the care of those currently being looked after.

The system doesn't pay in to pay for you it pays for society.

Mojisola

poppysarah wrote: »

What did the will say? Was the transfer made? Was the house his to give?

I took the OP to mean that Nanna's will leaves the house to her son and the cash to her grandchildren.

SandC

This might be seen as deprivation of assets if the proceeds from the sale of the house are indeed required to contribute towards her nursing care. It sounds very complicated what you are proposing to do but keeping it in your nan's name may be possible with you renting it?

As others have posted, she will have a pensions income and this will go towards the £450 per week fees. You as a family (your sister specifically) need to sit down and work out the finances. There should be someone at the home who can point you in the right direction for advice on this.

There is also financial assistance towards home fees dependent upon the level of care required and this is NOT means tested. However, it sounds like your nan might not get much assistance as the highest level of help is based on how much nursing care is required (ie can the person feed themselves, go to the toilet etc or are they bed ridden and totally dependent). Ask, ask, ask is what I would recommend you all do.

As a family again as others have posted, it may well be possible to pay for her care and for her savings to stay where they are for as long as possible - you need legal advice on the purchasing at reduced price idea as it might leave you in financial disarray if she ends up living at the home for a good many years.

Between you all, surely you can pay the fees for the home outside of her pension and other income, bar some pocket money for her? By the way, even if she's in a home she will still receive half of the winter fuel allowance etc., because she is paying for heating within the fees for the home.

SandC

margaretclare wrote: »

What income has your Grandmother got? Income I mean, not savings or assets in the form of house property.

If she is on full state pension plus Attendance Allowance at full rate (she needs attention by night as well as by day) then this should amount to almost £200 a week. She can keep some of that as 'pocket money' and I admit, I'm guessing at the actual figures. But those amounts alone will make a dent in the weekly charges you're quoting. And no, it's not true that your Grandmother will 'see none of this'. She's getting a service. A bit like when you go away on holiday. You pay at either 5 star rates or the cheapest B&B. Meals, cleaning, laundry, someone there all the time - you get what you pay for.

You get far more than you pay for - hotels dont have 24 hour nursing care.

taxsaver

Some VERY ROUGH figures are as follows:

State Pension - £102.15 pw
Attendance Allow - £ 73.60 pw
Rent - £100.00 pw - you living there and paying the rent?
________
£275.75 pw
________

Shortfall = £175 pw = £9,100 pa

So on this basis your Nan's £20k will cover the shortfall for a little over 2 years and the house does not need to be sold during that time.

Given that the house is only worth £60k I've assumed a very low rent, but this could perhaps be more. I've also ignored any other income she might have, perhaps some other pensions (often widows would still continue to receive a reduced amount from any company pension scheme that their partners had), or the little bit of interest she would be earning on the (reducing) £20k savings.

So you can see that there is no need to immediately sell the house, you DO have options!

Mojisola

One thing your sister has to be careful about - her role of POA makes her legally responsible to do the best thing for your Nanna. Selling the house below the market could get her into trouble.

dorset_nurse

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You dont understand how tax works then. End of life care and pensions are funded by current tax payers with the understanding that the generations below them will eventually do the same.

There is no cumulative account building up for which you are the eventual beneficiary. If the money doesnt exist out of current tax revenue and borrowing to provide free care homes for people with assets who's family dont want to know, then there are no care homes for people with assets who's families dont want to know.

As I stated before, care homes are not hospitals and will not accept severely unwell patients.

The OP, and her family, could look after her grandmother at home if they wished, until she is referred to hospital. This is what my family did.

They have chosen not to do this and now want to find out how to hide her assets so someone else foots the bill.

Which really annoys me to be frank.

I am reading this thread with interest as someone with a great deal of experience in this area.

Most councils have a threshold of around £23000 an individual is allowed to have before they have to pay for their care.
All people are financially assessed by a social worker when being admitted to a home- including looking into the history of any property they have or have recently sold.
The individual is expected to pay for their care with any money or assets over and above their allowance. This may include a charge being placed on a property if a debt is allowed to accrue as there can be issues with capacity and gaining POA to sell the property.
The care home will charge their private rate if they are told the person has savings or a house by the social worker (which are usually £300 per week higher than the usual local uthority rates of roughly £600 per week).
The local authority will chase any assets from the family to save their budget... if the fees are not paid by the individual the care home will default the debt to the LA. It is in their best interests to get it right!
Each LA has a "safeguarding" team that will look into financial abuse (and other kinds of abuse) if any professional involved with the individuals care deems it necessary.
Once the 23k threshold is reached, a social worker triggers the LA to take over payments and the individual continues to pay around £110 per week from their state pension.
Attendance allowance and most other benefits cannot be claimed while someone is in care- sometimes the LA will claim this back after long stays in hospital.

Care homes can be VERY like hospitals, especially now when hospital beds are all full and nursing homes have fully trained nurses which can do the same job in most cases eg end of life care that hospitals can- most can get GPs to attend residents quicker than on a hospital ward!

Prices of care homes do not always mean the care is better, just look at the CQC (care quality commission) reports of some homes and compare their prices. A lot depends on the level of care someone requires, the area, and the abundance of care home beds available in the area.

Lots of people in care homes have dementia and care needs that can not be managed in their home. The LA will usually stump up for 4 day visits for care a day- 6 if someone has high needs usually on a special level of funding called continuing health care. This is not usually cheaper than being in a care home! Care homes are staffed 24 hours a day meaning confused or restless people can access care at night too.

Most care homes accept private paying residents and LA funded residents. Ratios vary depending on the climate at the time, but every individual recieves the same package of care for a very different price. Care homes have to claw back some money from the private paying people to subsidise the LA rates they have to accept as councils have frozen/dropped prices in most areas crippling many smaller care home companies.

Not a great system at all, but everyone is guaranteed a place... unless the council has closed so many homes that all the beds are full...

Mojisola

dorset_nurse wrote: »

Attendance allowance and most other benefits cannot be claimed while someone is in care- sometimes the LA will claim this back after long stays in hospital.

If you are self-funding, you can claim AA and similar benefits.