landlord problems keeping my deposit

G-McDog

Hi, i have a question regarding getting my deposit back after renting a 1 bedroom flat for 10 months. We cleaned the house thoroughly. We spend a few days cleaning. When it came for the final inspection the landlords representative (michael) said all looked very nice. The landlords brother (who is the landlords main representative,called steve) also called and thanked us for looking after the place well and said we would get our full deposit back. He said we were the best tennant he's had and wish all his tennants were like us!!

Then 2 weeks later we recieved a letter from the landlord saying he wants to charge us £600 for cleaning. As he said he'd never see a place in such a bad state. We were shocked at his statements. Have we lost all our deposit. He also said that the lack of cleaning had damaged the structure of the windows beyond repair!! It seems unfair, because if he'd pointed out the issues (which we don't think actually existed) we'd have sorted them whilst we were there. Here are some additional interesting points.

The landlords main representative ( steve) inspected the flat a month before we moved out and was very pleased with the state of the flat. This representative is apparently the landlords brother.

We have never met the landlord. Just his brother the representative!! We very strongly suspect they are one and the same person for various reasons. Through some very 'coincidental' circumstances.

In our original contract we signed he said he would return our deposit less £25 for cleaning.

We definitely cleaned the flat. But even if we didn't surely 10 months of not cleaning wouldn't cause structural damage?!!

£600 is for a cleaner who spent 10 hours cleaning.

vax2002

I think you may want to contact your local council to have a word about this landlord, a few things dont add up

pimento

Is your deposit in a protection scheme?

Scho

As pimento said, the first thing to check is your deposit scheme. However, only in England and wales. If you rented in England and Wales and it wasn't in a scheme, they've broken the law and can be liable for upto 3X the deposit amount.

Make sure any correspondence to the landlord is in writing to aid you from a legal standpoint. Send 2 letters from 2 different post offices and get proof of postage.

You're not liable for any charge if you left the place in as good or better condition than you left it apart from your normal wear & tear through 'normal' use. If the window was broken before you arrived, then not your fault. I can't see how dirt and grime from 10 months can damage a window structurally - wood or uPVC! If you broke the window then you would be liable for the cost of repair.
Did the landlord provide an inventory of the property or any kind of photos etc to show the condition of the place? Did you take notes or photos of things when you moved in/out?

I wouldn't let them take any money off you for cleaning if you cleaned it to a high standard (sounds like you did given the inspection comments). It's your money and they're taking it for doing nothing - if anything get them to send you copies of the receipts for this cleaner who charges £60 an hour rate!

may_fair

Scho wrote: »

As pimento said, the first thing to check is your deposit scheme. However, only in England and wales. If you rented in England and Wales and it wasn't in a scheme, they've broken the law and can be liable for upto 3X the deposit amount.

No. There was a Court of Appeal judgment earlier this month which ruled that T cannot claim after the tenancy has ended.

Quoting from the report on the Nearly Legal blog:

Therefore the Court has held that the monetary penalties for non-protection of the deposit are not available to the tenant when the tenancy has come to an end. In other words tenants cannot make claims against their landlords for three times the deposit at any point once the tenancy is over.

http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2011/05/eviscerated-now-also-drawn-and-quartered/

may_fair

G-McDog wrote: »

Then 2 weeks later we recieved a letter from the landlord saying he wants to charge us £600 for cleaning. As he said he'd never see a place in such a bad state. We were shocked at his statements. Have we lost all our deposit.

No, you haven't.

If this is an AST and the deposit is protected by a scheme, contact the scheme to raise a dispute.

If the deposit is not protected, write the LL a letter before action, stating that if he does not refund the deposit by a given deadline you will start a claim in the county court.

If he doesn't pay up, start a claim online at Money Claim Online. The claim will be allocated to the small claims track; court fees are low (and are added to your claim) and you don't need a solicitor - you can DIY.

If the LL thinks he's entitled to keep some or all of the money, he'll have to counterclaim for the alleged damage/cleaning etc, and he'll have to provide evidence to support his claims, including evidence of the condition of the property at the start and end of the tenancy. Unless the LL carried out a check-in inventory/condition report at the start of the tenancy, he will struggle to prove anything at all, and you will win the claim. From the sound of it, his claims are extremely inflated if not completely invented; if so, this will be very obvious to the court.

JohnLa

I agree with may_fair he has to provide evidence. Could someone help me with my query I recently ended a tenancy with a landlord he gave us 3 months to move out as he wanted to sell the flat my partner and I was renting. Which we were ok about because he gave more than enough legal notice and my partner and I were not happy about the flat anyway. The intial 6 months had only just passed after this notice but there are communication problems as he rented the flat via agentcy which begins with an M. Two months on now we still haven't recieved our desposit back we are not aware of any disputes because the lanlord won't repsond to the agentcy about the amount to be paid. We put a single cliam in a week ago if the landlord or agentcy doesn't we will automatically get out money back and is it 14 days they have to respond.

Thanks

G-McDog

Hi,

There has now been a development. I replied refuting his claims, answering his questions and informing him if he keeps my deposit then I will dispute it through whichever government approved deposit scheme he has used.

In his reply he has added further claims regarding other items in the flat. Which he did not mention in the first letter (all of these are also false). He also has made some other statements which I'd really like some advice on.

He has admitted to not putting my deposit into a government approved security scheme. However, he has said that he will refund me my deposit but then take me to court and sue me for the damages!!

He also has admitted to breaking the lease agreement by entering the property when we had not agreed him to do so and taken pictures. He's pictures were to prove that we had budgies. We did have budgies, but there was nothing in the lease agreement to say we weren't allowed pets. When the inspection was made (2 months before we moved out) the landlord said they were lovely and he had no issues with them being in the flat. He said he really liked them.

My main questions are:

Can he refund my deposit then sue me for "Everything I've got"? or even sue me for anything!!

The representative said the flat was fine on the day we left. He thanked us for taking such good care of the place. He also said we would definitly get our deposit back. Does this count for anything? We refute all his claims. The flat was cleaned to an even better condition than we found it.

Is it unreasonable for the landlord to expect the flat to be left in a better condition than what we found it in?

Thank you

flimsier

G-McDog wrote: »

Hi, i have a question regarding getting my deposit back after renting a 1 bedroom flat for 10 months. We cleaned the house thoroughly. We spend a few days cleaning. When it came for the final inspection the landlords representative (michael) said all looked very nice. The landlords brother (who is the landlords main representative,called steve) also called and thanked us for looking after the place well and said we would get our full deposit back. He said we were the best tennant he's had and wish all his tennants were like us!!

Then 2 weeks later we recieved a letter from the landlord saying he wants to charge us £600 for cleaning. As he said he'd never see a place in such a bad state. We were shocked at his statements. Have we lost all our deposit. He also said that the lack of cleaning had damaged the structure of the windows beyond repair!! It seems unfair, because if he'd pointed out the issues (which we don't think actually existed) we'd have sorted them whilst we were there. Here are some additional interesting points.

The landlords main representative ( steve) inspected the flat a month before we moved out and was very pleased with the state of the flat. This representative is apparently the landlords brother.

We have never met the landlord. Just his brother the representative!! We very strongly suspect they are one and the same person for various reasons. Through some very 'coincidental' circumstances.

In our original contract we signed he said he would return our deposit less £25 for cleaning.

We definitely cleaned the flat. But even if we didn't surely 10 months of not cleaning wouldn't cause structural damage?!!

£600 is for a cleaner who spent 10 hours cleaning.

Definitely dispute it, because the deposit should be "held" - so he gets none either.

I got all my deposit back minus £75 for the inspection (which I neglected to see was in the contract) after they tried to charge me for cleaning. I just said "you're lying, I know you're lying, you know you're lying, and I can afford for it to stay there and you can't let the flat out and persue legal action. If you want the £75 you'll agree with me.

And they did - and apologised.

edit: I recognise it's not always that easy.

flimsier

G-McDog wrote: »

Hi,

There has now been a development. I replied refuting his claims, answering his questions and informing him if he keeps my deposit then I will dispute it through whichever government approved deposit scheme he has used.

In his reply he has added further claims regarding other items in the flat. Which he did not mention in the first letter (all of these are also false). He also has made some other statements which I'd really like some advice on.

He has admitted to not putting my deposit into a government approved security scheme. However, he has said that he will refund me my deposit but then take me to court and sue me for the damages!!

He also has admitted to breaking the lease agreement by entering the property when we had not agreed him to do so and taken pictures. He's pictures were to prove that we had budgies. We did have budgies, but there was nothing in the lease agreement to say we weren't allowed pets. When the inspection was made (2 months before we moved out) the landlord said they were lovely and he had no issues with them being in the flat. He said he really liked them.

My main questions are:

Can he refund my deposit then sue me for "Everything I've got"? or even sue me for anything!!

The representative said the flat was fine on the day we left. He thanked us for taking such good care of the place. He also said we would definitly get our deposit back. Does this count for anything? We refute all his claims. The flat was cleaned to an even better condition than we found it.

Is it unreasonable for the landlord to expect the flat to be left in a better condition than what we found it in?

Thank you

Let him do that. It won't get to court. He has too much to lose.

tbs624

G-McDog. You were obliged to leave the property in the same condition as when let to you, save for "fair wear and tear" . Note that FW&T does not cover dirt or damage.Google "mydeposits" and "Landlords' guide to fair wear and tear"

In order to successfully claim for any omissions/damage on the T's part the LL will need to produce clear evidence of the condition of the property at the start and the end of tenancy, as may_fair says. Was an inventory completed, signed by both you as T and by your LL or LL's representative?

Did you take photos at the start/end of your tenancy?