Help re management company and electricty?

realised

Hi all, We purchased an apartment in November and have since arranged to get our kitchen and bathroom upgraded.

However, we have a problem, we contacted our eletrician to get them to install our electric oven and he is refusing, stating that the electrics are not up to current standards and therefore cannot legally carry out the work. In fact, they are so old there is no earth in our apartment at all and he was extremely surprised how the rest of the buildings in the complex had managed to get electricians to do any work at all.

He is saying that until the management company upgrades the whole building, he will legally not be able to do any work. So we went to our management company who asked to look at our periodic report and said they would contact our electrician.

It has been months since this happened and now whenever I email the management company he does not bother to reply and whenever I call he is apparently 'out of the office' and does not return my messages. I contacted my electrician who said he has not received a call from them at all.

I don't really know what to do now because I have been left without an oven for nearly 7 months and also, we cannot get the lighting sorted in our bathroom and essentially, we're left without adequate electrics

Can anyone advise on what steps I should take next?

Thank you

muckybutt

I would write to them and put them on a "notice before action". Basically you are telling them that they have to get you electrics inspected within xx days, tell them if they do not respond then you will appoint an approved NICEIC electrician to do a full periodic inspection to highlight all remedial works that are urgently needed as you believe some are dangerous, and that you will charge them back for what you are owed.

I would also get the council involved via the building inspector and also get you electicity supplier out to check the meter side of things to make sure their earting arrangement is ok.

Send any letters you need to by recorded delivery then you have both proof of posting and proof of delivery along with a name.

Alan_M_2

I would actually go the council route first.

Do bear in mind you own the property and the managing agent is simply that, a manager who organises repairs to the communal good of the property owners.

I'd want to be a little more in control of what's happening or you're likely to find the management agent eventually instruct a very large and expensive electrical contractor that you are responsible for paying for.

Do you have a residents association? Have you discussed this with other owners in the building?

realised

Thanks for your replies

Well according to our lease, the electrics and building must be maintained to a good standard so I don't think we will have to pay any more than what we pay already because it should have been included in that price

I just had a word with someone from the company who said that they are in the process of appointing a contractor..but they have been saying this for months!

The last residents meeting we bought it up and he said he would look into it and liase with us, but obviously it was just a fob off. I was planning to speak to cab but you must be the luckiest person in the world in order to speak to them as their lines are constantly busy!

The thing is, it is difficult for us to be able to do anything because the majority of the residents within the complex are renting so don't really care.

I will deefinately look at speaking to someone in the council because I am fed up.

Thank you all for your advice, I will keep you posted

realised

Update: Managed to speak to someone in the council who recommended I should speak to the NICEIC

Finally got through to them today and they are also unsure with what they could do in this situation. They then recommended I speak to the district electricty supplier.

So I've just called them up and they say the only thing they can do is come into our property and install a PME (Protective Multiple earth) to make our property safe but cannot really do anything with regards to my problem with the management company.

I'm not too sure what the PME is, can anyone provide me with some more information?

I'm not sure whether to now write the management company a notice before action, or go ahead with the PME - Our electrician was going to upgrade all our electrics and update them. It's all a little confusing!

EDIT: Also just spoke to the management company again and she is saying that they cannot find an electrician willing to do the job... ARGH! Excuse of the year :mad:

ic

I don't understand why the electrics within your flat are the responsibility of the management company? Communal areas yes, but your flat is your own surely? Do you have your own meter and consumer unit?

realised

No, the electrics within my apartment are my responsibility and I am willing to put the money into fixing that. But my electrician cannot work on my apartment as there is no earth in the communal area of the building.

Therefore, the management company needs to update and make the communal area up to standards before our electrician can work on our apartment.

We do have our own meter but it has the red and black wires which my electrician says probably haven't been updated since the building was built in the late 1950s- early 1960s

Edit: Just managed to find the periodic inspection report the electrician did and it says:

1. On inspection of the supply intake on the ground floor, the earthing arrangement does not comply with regaulations
a) there is no eathing strap from lead armoured supply cable and
b) no earthing terminal

The safety of the earthing arrangement at the supply intake from where the suppliers cables and distribution boards on the landings of each floor needs to be checked.


I hope that gives a little more information. I'm not that good with electricity, I can just about take meter readings

fluffpot

What you need to get from your electrician is the measured 'earth fault loop impedance reading' (also called Ze). This figure should be on the certificates. Please post back the reading as if it's too high it can be used as evidence that either the electricity supply company of the freeholders of your building have not maintained a good earth. As it stands if the whole block is not earthed properly all of your are in a potentially dangerous situation.
The words that your sparky has written above need to be backed up with the measured reading as there are other ways of earthing a property other than an earth strap to the supply
Sorry this is all getting a bit technical - I'm sure you'll be an expert by the end of it!

realised

I've just had anotheer scan of the report and it says

External earth fault loop impendance: .09

Makes no sense to me but I hope it does to you!

I do remember the electrician saying the readings he was getting from our sockets weren't bad, just very old.

I've also found out from other neighbours that this management company has been managing our property for less than 5 years and the company beforehand hadn't managed well. That's why there aren't any previous electric safety reports for the building. However, I think as soon as this company took over, surely they should have ensured the building was up to regulations? When I spoke to the council, they said it was a legal requirement to check electrics every 5 years?

steve1980

You should have your own earthing rod for your property which the consumer board is attached to.

fluffpot

Hi Realised

If the external earth fault loop impedance (Ze) is really 0.09 Ohms then that's in fact a very good reading! Can you go back to your sparky and ask him/her to explain why he's then said that there's no earth present when this reading indicates that there is?
The reading is pretty low as to indicate a PME type of earthing system, which in fact is not done with an earth strap, so maybe this is why he can't see one??
If the earthing to the main building is good, then it's your sole responsibility to put right any poor earthing in your flat whether it be loose earth connections/old sockets etc.
I wonder if it might also be worth getting a second opinion on the earthing - it wouldn't take long to double check that Ze reading