Advice needed - problems with second hand car

seasideshack

(Apologies in advance for my lack of car knowledge). I wondered if anyone could offer me any advice on who to complain to or what to do next with the following problem?

My old Punto broke down in the bad weather last year and needed a lot of work doing so I decided it was time to replace it. I was on a limited budget and as I know nothing about cars I didn’t want to buy one through a private sale so I went to a second hand car dealer. I thought this was the safer option. I bought a 53 plate Punto with a 3 month warranty. After two months the gear box and clutch gave up. I was so relieved I had the warranty because the bill was £500. I contacted the garage who told me to contact the warranty company, which I did. However, they refused to pay up, saying it was wear and tear (after two months?). Yesterday the exhaust blew (or so I thought). It turns out it is the cat (?) which the exhaust is attached to which is completely split in two and needs replacing. It is going to cost £300 plus to have this repaired, which I have to find asap because I need my car for work.


I am so stressed out about this and don’t know what to do. I feel like I’ve been sold a car with a lot of underlying problems. I have done less than 2000 miles since purchasing the car 5 months ago. I am dreading what is going to go wrong next. I have no idea who to complain to or if I even have any rights etc?

Strider590

Good old Fiat's huh? As reliable as the people who build them

£500 for a Gearbox + Clutch is not enough, I paid £700+ for a recon gearbox fitted "on the cheap, mates rates". Dealerships wanted £1200.

£300 for a CAT is too much, I got a full new exhaust system (inc CAT) fitted for just shy of £450.

I don't know what's going on, but these people seem to be pulling figures out of thin air..........

Warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on, they do cover everything except for what's mentioned in the small print where it basically might as well say "this warranty does not cover any part of the car".

Doesn't a used car still have to be fit for purpose though? SOGA and all that?
Plus if they MOT'd it just before you picked it up, then they must have faked the MOT (hard to prove).

fivetide

Sounds like you've been sold a bit of a banger that was tarted up by the garage. Alongside that they have sold you a useless warrenty which has everything as wear and tear. Always worth checking what is and isn't covered....

Who is the warrenty with? Someone might have had dealings with them in the past...

5t.

paddedjohn

Strider590 wrote: »

Good old Fiat's huh? As reliable as the people who build them

£500 for a Gearbox + Clutch is not enough, I paid £700+ for a recon gearbox fitted "on the cheap, mates rates". Dealerships wanted £1200.

£300 for a CAT is too much, I got a full new exhaust system (inc CAT) fitted for just shy of £450.

I don't know what's going on, but these people seem to be pulling figures out of thin air..........

Warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on, they do cover everything except for what's mentioned in the small print where it basically might as well say "this warranty does not cover any part of the car".

Doesn't a used car still have to be fit for purpose though? SOGA and all that?
Plus if they MOT'd it just before you picked it up, then they must have faked the MOT (hard to prove).

I totally agree with most of the above, the only bit i disagree with is the point about the MOT.
An MOT test is only proof of the condition of the vehicle at the time of the test, a cat can go at any time.

seasideshack

Thanks for the advice. I've calmed down a bit now

The bill for the cat was £200 so that was a bit better than the £300 quoted.

I am just hoping that is the end of the repairs for now.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my post, much appreciated.

gifted1

hi,
£200 for a cat fitted is about right as long as they use a type approved cat. it is illegal for any garage to fit a cat to a vehicle of this age that is not type approved.

as for the gearbox/clutch.....
any dealer that sells a car MUST give at least a three month warranty. this does not extend to wear and tear, such as worn brake pads etc but it should cover your gearbox. the reason that these car lots' sell you a warranty with an outside company is so that you do not go back to them and make them pay for the repairs.

contact consumer direct and they will tell you the correct procedure

s_b

seasideshack are you sure its split as these cats on puntos dont do this what normally happens is the flange on the end of the cat that affixes to the middle section rots and shears off
there is a repair section that can be fitted it costs £25 trade and clamps or welds on and the job is done,im sure even possibly quick fit could sort this for you if they deem to fit them
as regards the gearbox clutch i would suggest the oil seal in the first motion shaft failed after the bearing partialy collapsed,this is fairly common and would also ruin your clutch with oil contamination,personally i would be looking to the seller of the car for a part payment of the costs irrsepective of any 3rd party warranty sold

Tilt

The OP's claim is against the dealer NOT the warranty company. Any warranty does not replace the consumers statatoury rights. Under the SOGA any defect which occur within 6 months of ownership is assumed present at the point of sale. It is for the seller to prove that it wasn't. You should write to the seller requesting that he inspects the car (his right) and rectify. If he refuses you may have an avenue to persue with trading standards. IMPORTANT Do not arrange any repair before giving the seller the opportunity to rectify first.


P.S. I have an HGT which I have owned from new in 2000. It has done just over 60k and is one of the best cars I have ever owned (and I have had a few!)

Wig

Tilt wrote: »

The OP's claim is against the dealer NOT the warranty company. Any warranty does not replace the consumers statatoury rights. Under the SOGA any defect which occur within 6 months of ownership is assumed present at the point of sale. It is for the seller to prove that it wasn't. You should write to the seller requesting that he inspects the car (his right) and rectify. If he refuses you may have an avenue to persue with trading standards. IMPORTANT Do not arrange any repair before giving the seller the opportunity to rectify first.


P.S. I have an HGT which I have owned from new in 2000. It has done just over 60k and is one of the best cars I have ever owned (and I have had a few!)

As the car was driven away from the sale and driven successfuly for a couple of months without problems we can easily assume that it would be a piece of cake for the retailer to persuade the court that the car was satisfactory at the point of sale.

i.e. the gearbox and clutch failed eventually rendering it virtually undriveable at some point after the sale.

We don't know what the OP refers to by the exhaust "blowing up" but it sounds like it was a sudden failure quite recently, again not present at the time of sale.

No case to answer, don't bother going to court. You can ask for an ex gratia payment but don't be surprised when they say 'no'.

Always ask them before buying a warranty to say categorically yes or no and for this to be put in writing, if certain items will be covered if within the warranty period they fail for any reason including expected wear & tear.... when they refuse or they reply "no you will not be covered" ask them what then is the point of buying the warranty?

HOWEVER, if you decide to go to court over this there is case law which says that a warranty bought at point of sale implies a period of trouble free motoring, and if you quote this to the judge then your chances of success will be improved. The case was Luton/lutton v Savill/savil/saville/savile Tractors Belfast IIRC. But you MUST give the retailer ample opportunity to do the repairs, even after they have initially refused. If you repair it yourself at your cost (too early) you will probably have no case at all.

Tilt

Wig wrote: »

As the car was driven away from the sale and driven successfuly for a couple of months without problems we can easily assume that it would be a piece of cake for the retailer to persuade the court that the car was satisfactory at the point of sale.

i.e. the gearbox and clutch failed eventually rendering it virtually undriveable at some point after the sale.

We don't know what the OP refers to by the exhaust "blowing up" but it sounds like it was a sudden failure quite recently, again not present at the time of sale.

No case to answer, don't bother going to court. You can ask for an ex gratia payment but don't be surprised when they say 'no'.

Always ask them before buying a warranty to say categorically yes or no and for this to be put in writing, if certain items will be covered if within the warranty period they fail for any reason including expected wear & tear.... when they refuse or they reply "no you will not be covered" ask them what then is the point of buying the warranty?

HOWEVER, if you decide to go to court over this there is case law which says that a warranty bought at point of sale implies a period of trouble free motoring, and if you quote this to the judge then your chances of success will be improved. The case was Luton v Savill Tractors Belfast IIRC. But you MUST give the retailer ample opportunity to do the repairs, even after they have initially refused. If you repair it yourself at your cost (too early) you will probably have no case at all.

I disagree. The judge would request an independant inspection report. It could be the case that the car had not been serviced correctly prior to purchase ect. And a lot would depend on how much the OP payed for the car and how it was described. I agree that the gear box should be covered under the warranty but it would be for the seller to sort that out. The clutch however is sometimes a differrent ball game as most of it can be described as having 'wear and tear' components, but when the gearbox is repaird, it would follow that the clutch will need removing anyway so the OP should only have to pay the parts.

As for the cat, it sounds like it has been damaged so again, this could of been like it at the point of sale.

Perhaps the OP can come back and tell us how the car was described, it's mileage and how much he payed for it.

Flyboy152

Wig wrote: »

As the car was driven away from the sale and driven successfuly for a couple of months without problems we can easily assume that it would be a piece of cake for the retailer to persuade the court that the car was satisfactory at the point of sale.

i.e. the gearbox and clutch failed eventually rendering it virtually undriveable at some point after the sale.

We don't know what the OP refers to by the exhaust "blowing up" but it sounds like it was a sudden failure quite recently, again not present at the time of sale.

No case to answer, don't bother going to court. You can ask for an ex gratia payment but don't be surprised when they say 'no'.

Always ask them before buying a warranty to say categorically yes or no and for this to be put in writing, if certain items will be covered if within the warranty period they fail for any reason including expected wear & tear.... when they refuse or they reply "no you will not be covered" ask them what then is the point of buying the warranty?

HOWEVER, if you decide to go to court over this there is case law which says that a warranty bought at point of sale implies a period of trouble free motoring, and if you quote this to the judge then your chances of success will be improved. The case was Luton/lutton v Savill/savil/saville/savile Tractors Belfast IIRC. But you MUST give the retailer ample opportunity to do the repairs, even after they have initially refused. If you repair it yourself at your cost (too early) you will probably have no case at all.

Using persuasion and assumptions is not enough. The seller has to actually prove with evidence, that the fault was not present at the point of sale; an extremely difficult thing to do.