Millions give up on owning property

ruggedtoast

Conrad wrote: »

If the Germans are richer, it's not apparant. Visit foreign property developments from Morocco to Dubai and you find it's Brits doing the investing. Germans feature a lot less. So where is all this wealth of thiers that you imply must be bountiful given they dont plough it into property?

I dont know Germany that well but I know the UK pretty well, and live in one of the most affluent bits, and all the times I've been to Deutschland it looks much better off than the UK.

Admittedly this is around Berlin and Stuttgart where the affluence spreads for miles. But affluence doesnt spread for miles here, it usually spreads for a five minute walk when you hit the next council estate.

This was most apparent when I first went on a school exchange. The British school looked like a run down dump, we were all sharing 4 to a moth eaten old text book, classes in manky, freezing mobile classrooms. The German high school looked more like I imagined a university to look like.

It was actually embarrassing when the Germans came back to visit us.

Germany also basically doubled in size overnight in the unification and had to absorb one of the economically most underperforming regions on the European continent.

Currently Germany is mostly holding the EU together, reluctantly, but by nothing other than economic and political brute force. Britain just does not have that clout.

You would have to look pre 1930s for the last time the British economy would have been strong enough to do that.

roddydogs

ruggedtoast wrote: »

This argument pops up all the time, but its not comparing like for like. Contrary to marketing departments of multinationals everywhere, there is no evidence whatsoever that access to modern consumer durables improves quality of life.

Theres no evidence also that owning a house improves the quality of life, and have you given up your modern consumer durables because they dont improve your quality of life?

debtistheft

It amazes me that people who bought their houses pre-boom complacently sit back and extoll the virtues of house buying, especially while they languish on 300% or more HPI. They simply cannot see that its not the same for people buying today. Its not only not in the same ball park, it's not the same game, it's not even on the same planet.

I'm sure most young people wished that they had bought back in 1972 when not only did you have cheaper housing but you also had MIRAS tax relief that could be applied to the majority of the mortgage. Stamp duty was just for toffs.

Its also telling that most of the people who are battling hard against my position live in some northen hell hole where prices are lower. Try buying a decent house NOW in the South East,and then ask yourself if you want to spend the better part of your youth saving up for a deposit and the better part of your middle age paying down a debt so large that would be inconceivable when you bought your houses.

Its laughable that a few people who bought their first house decades ago feel that they have anything at all relevent to say about housing today.

Its great that you guys bought your houses pre-boom and have pretty much paid them off, but unless you expect people to go back in time and buy in the past, your views are irrelevent. Congratulations for being old because thats the only reason you can afford housing, you're not financial gurus. You're just old.

ViolaLass

debtistheft wrote: »

I'm sure most young people wished that they had bought back in 1972 when not only did you have cheaper housing but you also had MIRAS tax relief that could be applied to the majority of the mortgage. Stamp duty was just for toffs.

Yes, I regularly berate myself for what I failed to do 12 years before I was born.

debtistheft wrote: »

Its also telling that most of the people who are battling hard against my position live in some northen hell hole where prices are lower. Try buying a decent house NOW in the South East,and then ask yourself if you want to spend the better part of your youth saving up for a deposit and the better part of your middle age paying down a debt so large that would be inconceivable when you bought your houses.

Prices are lower where I am but I'm not in 'some northern hellhole'. I like where I live. I lived in London for 5 years and chose to leave because I could see that a long term future there, the way I want it, wasn't tenable. I didn't whinge about house prices being awful, I just found somewhere new to go.

Your argument seems to be that house prices in the South East are too high, poor them, I wish house prices would go up more so that people would only rent. In that case, why are you worried about house prices in the SE being too high? Isn't that what you want?

debtistheft wrote: »

Its laughable that a few people who bought their first house decades ago feel that they have anything at all relevent to say about housing today.

I haven't bought a house yet. I'm only in my late 20s. I still think the position you hold isn't logical. And my heart doesn't bleed for people in London. I chose to leave, they have the same choice.

debtistheft wrote: »

Its great that you guys bought your houses pre-boom and have pretty much paid them off, but unless you expect people to go back in time and buy in the past, your views are irrelevent. Congratulations for being old because thats the only reason you can afford housing, you're not financial gurus. You're just old.

Having fun with your generalisations and assumptions?

chucky

debtistheft wrote: »

It amazes me that people who bought their houses pre-boom complacently sit back and extoll the virtues of house buying, especially while they languish on 300% or more HPI. They simply cannot see that its not the same for people buying today. Its not only not in the same ball park, it's not the same game, it's not even on the same planet.

I'm sure most young people wished that they had bought back in 1972 when not only did you have cheaper housing but you also had MIRAS tax relief that could be applied to the majority of the mortgage. Stamp duty was just for toffs.

Its also telling that most of the people who are battling hard against my position live in some northen hell hole where prices are lower. Try buying a decent house NOW in the South East,and then ask yourself if you want to spend the better part of your youth saving up for a deposit and the better part of your middle age paying down a debt so large that would be inconceivable when you bought your houses.

Its laughable that a few people who bought their first house decades ago feel that they have anything at all relevent to say about housing today.

Its great that you guys bought your houses pre-boom and have pretty much paid them off, but unless you expect people to go back in time and buy in the past, your views are irrelevent. Congratulations for being old because thats the only reason you can afford housing, you're not financial gurus. You're just old.

you should really try and get out in the real world because there have been FTB's buying each year since 1972.

ukcarper

debtistheft wrote: »

It amazes me that people who bought their houses pre-boom complacently sit back and extoll the virtues of house buying, especially while they languish on 300% or more HPI. They simply cannot see that its not the same for people buying today. Its not only not in the same ball park, it's not the same game, it's not even on the same planet.

I'm sure most young people wished that they had bought back in 1972 when not only did you have cheaper housing but you also had MIRAS tax relief that could be applied to the majority of the mortgage. Stamp duty was just for toffs.

Its also telling that most of the people who are battling hard against my position live in some northen hell hole where prices are lower. Try buying a decent house NOW in the South East,and then ask yourself if you want to spend the better part of your youth saving up for a deposit and the better part of your middle age paying down a debt so large that would be inconceivable when you bought your houses.

Its laughable that a few people who bought their first house decades ago feel that they have anything at all relevent to say about housing today.

Its great that you guys bought your houses pre-boom and have pretty much paid them off, but unless you expect people to go back in time and buy in the past, your views are irrelevent. Congratulations for being old because thats the only reason you can afford housing, you're not financial gurus. You're just old.

I live in the south east I bought in the 70s boom and I have been much better off buying interests rates were higher then so negated the miras. The only way than rent can pay is if rents do not rise with inflation and I will be very surprised if that happens and then it is marginal at best.

At the end of 72 house price in relation to now were not far behind what they are now.

debtistheft

As I have said on the other thread. Its unfortunate that on these sorts of debates, the ones wit the biggest VIs and biggest mouths drown out all the debate. It's no coincidence that the ones shouting down the idea that we don't have to live our lives in debt are the estate agents or mortgage brokers or people who bought in the 70's and need the gravy train to keep going so that they can downsize and put away a packet for their retirement.

To those who are looking at a mountain of debt from education and a mountain of debt from buying a house, don't let these people make you feel like a 'loser' or second class citizen. Opt out and invest your money. Learn about investing and grow your savings faster than HPI can grow (frankly, can anyone see house prices boom like this again for 20 years?). Don't fall into the folly tha debt is wealth and that it is 'natural' to spend 25 or more years in collosal debt.

Look back at this thread and see how ALL of the detractors have a VI. Shame on them for even being on a house price board when some bought back in the 1970s and are sitting pretty. Shame on them for having to 'big' themselves up by telling young folk how well they are doing.

ViolaLass

Debtistheft, would you please enlighten me as to my vested interest?

debtistheft

ViolaLass wrote: »

Debtistheft, would you please enlighten me as to my vested interest?

Its not all about you, ViolaLass, get over yourself.

The arrogance of the bulls on this forum is breathtaking. Why are they even here at all? Why would house prices concern these people if they are doing so well financially and are so comfortable in their mortgage free houses.

The answer is that they are debted up to their eyeballs and are in complete fear that the housing market will crash. That is why they are on here. Poor deluded, frightened souls.

ViolaLass

debtistheft wrote: »

Its not all about you, ViolaLass, get over yourself.

You said all the detractors on this thread have a vested interest. So what is mine?