Scan.co.uk trying it on with me.

Sasahara

Unfortunately scan are correct in this case.

Once you unseal a computer/laptop with a windows oem product key you are unsealing licenced software.

It's access to the product key with you could copy and use that's the problem, even if you don't intend to.

zenmaster

sabz3008 wrote: »

What you need to do is e-mail them telling them that it's a breach of the SOGA and that it's "not fit for purpose" ...Don't worry about the software licensing nonsense...Did you pay by credit card? If so, section 75!!...

visidigi wrote: »

How on EARTH is it not fit for purpose?

Absolutely. It's just another example of the MSE parrot's litany -

"Not fit for purpose - squawk.
Mis-sold - squawk.
Section 75 - squawk.
Bad customer service - squawk."

I could go on.

sabz3008 wrote: »

If the laptop goes to just 90 degrees, I wouldn't personally consider it fit for purpose to be honest.

Let me try and explain for you simply

Fit For Purpose

Computer: Computes, does not bend.
Bendy toy: Bends, does not compute.

Not Fit For Purpose

Computer: Bends, does not compute.
Bendy toy: Computes, does not bend.

Hope that helps.

wealdroam

OP, send Scan an email cancelling your order.
Make it clear that you are cancelling the order under Distance Selling Regulations.

You must cancel the order within seven working days of receiving the thing. The seven working days start on the day after delivery.

You will have to pay the cost of returning the thing to them because that is what their T&Cs say, but they must refund all monies paid including the cost of delivery to you.

Have a read of the following sections of the OFT's guide to the DSRs...
3.23 on page 17,
3.26 on page 20,
3.46, 3.47 and 3.48 on page 25
and 3.55 on page 27.

Other pages may be worth reading too.

visidigi

sabz3008 wrote: »

If the laptop goes to just 90 degrees, I wouldn't personally consider it fit for purpose to be honest. - Remember, 'fit for purpose' / as advertised etc... are notions which are open to interpretation, and if the OP feels it's not fit for purpose - ie. not comfortable, then it's not fit for purpose!

Its not what YOU consider fit for purpose - its what the manufactures specifications states it should be capable of or what its limitations are compared to the actual device you recieved.

Its NOT personal opinion, its specification versus fact.

So please,don't spout off about interpretation - its very clearly defined as function not opinion.

To that end your advice is completely wrong.

Bigsy_2

Sasahara wrote: »

Unfortunately scan are correct in this case.

Once you unseal a computer/laptop with a windows oem product key you are unsealing licenced software.

It's access to the product key with you could copy and use that's the problem, even if you don't intend to.

As much as I see this is what they're driving at, no one can point me to the specific legislation which supports it.

The only reference to software and exemptions in the DSR is this:

(d)for the supply of audio or video recordings or computer software if they are unsealed by the consumer

I think your statement about keys stuck on laptops and unsealing a laptop box is a bit of a jump from what is stated in the regulations?

I mean the regulation says nothing at all about software keys? And why would it? I could walk into dixons and take an MSI oem key right off the bottom of a laptop in there, theres nothing special or unique about them. And is a simple key considered software in it's self? I think you would have a real hard time proving that one.

Enterprise_1701C

OP, have you found out if the netbook is meant to open beyond 90 degrees? If this is the case then you would have another way of sending it back as it would be faulty.

Google the make and model and you should be able to find out easily enough.

Bigsy_2

Jane_Blackford wrote: »

OP, have you found out if the netbook is meant to open beyond 90 degrees? If this is the case then you would have another way of sending it back as it would be faulty.

Google the make and model and you should be able to find out easily enough.

It's clearly by design, its a brand new msi fusion netbook with no reviews online (lesson learned there), but I did find a video on youtube at some electronics expo where gave a "first look" and complained about the limited tilt angle of the screen.

Bigsy_2

I queried them again about return under DSR this is their response this morning:

Unless you have agreed that they can, your consumers cannot cancel
if the order is for:

* audio or video recordings or computer software that the customer
has unsealed.

This laptop contains computer software, Windows 7 Home Premium, which by opening the packaging has been unsealed and the licence activated.

No movement from them, feel they are really bending this law to far to try and fit this scenario.

What can I do now? Is there anyway to escalate this?

Flyboy152

Bigsy wrote: »

Basically I bought a netbook from them, I got it the yesterday and within seconds of opening the box I could see that it had very limited screen tilt, like barely past 90 degrees. This just isn't comfortable for me and I was generally disappointed with the build quality so I wanted to send it back, I thought I had 7 days to return it I have used this for electronics which were not suitable for my needs in the past.

So I tried to return it and this is the response I got from scan:

Thank You for your email, unfortunately as the manufacturers seal has been broken and due to software licensing we would be unable to accept the item for refund.
Current legislation does not permit the return of opened items which contain licensed software.

Can I just say that this is a preloaded netbook there is no physical software included with it at all, it hasn't even been turned on and I can't return it?

I have just finished reading the distance selling rules:

w w w.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

Interesting under section 3.38 (page 23) it states I can't cancel withn 7 days if product is:

* audio or video recordings or computer software that the customer
has unsealed

This is obviously what they are trying use against me, but there is no software to "unseal"? It's a preloaded laptop it has no disks and the laptop hasn't even been turned on.

Scan are refusing to budge at all, what can I do? I feel I'm being screwed over here, I didn't buy software I bought a laptop, and I certainly didn't unseal any software, there is none to unseal. Help!

Thanks.

This is actually a DSR Issue, rather than a SOGA issue.

Here is an extract from the explanatory notes from the regs.

Can I insist that consumers who cancel an order within the
cancellation period return the goods as new or in their
original packaging?

3.58 No. Consumers are under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods
while in their possession as discussed in paragraph 3.44. The DSRs
allow consumers to examine goods they have ordered as they would
in a shop. If that requires opening the packaging and trying out the
goods then they have not breached their duty to take reasonable
care of the goods. In these circumstances you cannot insist that
consumers return the goods as new or in their original packaging.
You may ask consumers to return goods with the original packaging,
but you cannot insist on this. In the case of goods such as earrings
that have hygiene seals, you may require consumers to exercise
reasonable care by not removing the seals when examining them.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

Flyboy152

visidigi wrote: »

How on EARTH is it not fit for purpose? The fit for purpose means it doesn't do what it was designed to do - that is not the issue here, it does do exactly what its designed to do, its just that the OP doesn't feel comfortable with the viewing angle it offers - this is a personal preference of the OP and not something which makes the device not fit for purpose.

You won't be entitled to a Section 75 chargeback as you have the device, which works to manufacturers specification -just because the OP doesn't like that specification it still remains that it was bought according to the specification which he did recieve.

No, it means that to does not do what it is expected to do, not what it is designed to do. I could sell you a washing machine that is designed with no door, would it be still fit for purpose?

I do agree that Scan's view on this is a little harsh, but you need to be sure, before you barge in with the SOGA/S.75 that you actually understand and correctly follow the proceedure.

As for the software arguement, have you turned the device on - based on your complaint you wouldn't have actually needed to turn the device on to know the viewing angle was not comfortable - therefore this additionally doesn't help your situation.

As the DSRs allow the consumer to use the product before cancelling, it doesn't matter if he switched it on. If we were to follow your argument that the unit had been designed not to open fully, it would have had to be tested to see if the screen would be acceptable. This could only be fully achieved if the unit was switched on.

Does the device boot up to Windows? If it does, there is your software - now have you activated the Windows install?

Computers are a very particular topic where you really need to share all the facts of whats been done to be able to advise you accordingly.

If the computer does not work as expected, it is something for the retailer to take up with the manufacturer.