Council Tax Benefit error

roguetrooper72

New to posting on forums, so please be gentle!
A bit about myself first to get the general idea. I work full time and my wife stays at home to look after the baby, we also have 3 kids at school. We recieve child tax credits and working tax credits. We applied for council tax benefit about 8 years ago and recieve that too.
Right now for the problem:
Every year we get our council tax bill which outlines our benefit entitlement. So we have normally been paying around £25 per month in council tax. We also take into the council office each year wage slips, p60, tax credit award notices like they ask for to prove we are entitled to and how much benefit we should recieve. As we have always provided the proof we took it for granted that the people that our council tax pays for are capable of doing their job right and working out how much council tax we should pay each month. Well turns out we were wrong and it has now turned into a rather costly and worrying problem. A couple of years back I was unemployed for 2 months, yet I never mentioned it to the council as we continued to pay what we should have, my tax credits rose slightly but nothing significant. Then the following year we took all the stuff into the council again and when we got our bill the council tax had dropped to £15 per month. Bonus we thought and presumed it was because we were recieveing more in tax credits than the previous year. And again because we provided the information that they wanted we thought nothing more on the matter. Then the following year the bill went back upto around £25 per month again never thought anything off it as we provided all the details and proof. Half way into the year we recieved a letter from council saying we owed around £500 for unpaid council tax dating back over last couple of years and it would be taken out of next payment. So we phoned up to enquire why we owed money when we paid by direct debit to be told they had calculated the benefit wrong as the tax credits work on the year previous. So I pointed out if that was the case then surely I had paid too much council tax for the year previous to that. To be told it doesn't work that way!! So asked for them to send out all the details and how they worked it out. We recieved a letter which just had loads of figures on it with no real indication as to what the figures were or what they meant. So phoned again asking for a clearer version and explaination. Didn't recieve anything, so cancelled the direct debit as I couldn't afford a bill of £500 as that was nearly a full months wages. I also told them I would with hold payment until they explained how much I should be paying at present and how they figured out I was in arrears. Never heard anything till about 4 months later when we recieved a court summons. So again on the phone and came to an agreement we would pay £30 a month on top of the normal monthly payment and that they would drop the court case. Then two weeks after what would have been the court case we recieved a letter from the court saying they found in favour of the council and we would have to pay the £500 plus court costs within 7 days or if we have come to an agreement to ignore the letter and stick to the payments. So we ignored the letter. We then recieved another letter from the court asking for my work details which I ignored as we had come to an agreement. Now the council has a stupid pay system online which will only allow one payment to be made to the account and as they had asked me to pay the normal amount then a seperate payment of £30 it wasn't working so I put the two payments together and told the council what and why I had done. Have since been making payment trying to get rid of the debt. Now today I have recieved a letter from the court stating that they had arranged an attachment of earnings order for 2 seperate court cases surrounding the council tax. Now the two problems I have is I only ever recieved one court summons so why 2 court dates and I now have two attachements which are not very clear one for £599 and one for £297 now from what I can gather is looking at the table on the back they can take 7% of my earnings now is that 7% for each order or do they do one order first then the second? if they take both orders at 7% each that will be around £100 out of my wages each month which we are living on the bread line already and I know for a fact I could not afford it. Also where do I stand with this whole situation as it seems very unfair that they make a mistake and I have to pay severly for it and the council used underhand tactics by telling me to not worry about the court case as they would sort it!

Sorry if it doesn't sound too clear but at moment we are very worried as money is extremely tight at the moment and are not sure how we will cope.

Naf

This isn't York Council is it? I've had similar nightmares with them.
Unfortunately, you have little option but to do what they say as non payment of council tax is... (wait for this...) AN IMPRISIONABLE OFFENCE!
I'm surprised you received only one summons here: although they said they'd drop the court case, councils rarely do this, once they have the ruling they can do lots more in the way of claiming it back off you. I can explain the two different attachments; one for the current year, and one for the arrears (both probably have costs added too). If you only make one payment, it automatically all goes to the arrears and not to the current year; current year's payments have to EXACTLY match what your schedule of payments says. I think the only thing you can argue here is why its gone to attachment of earnings when you have an arrangement you're keeping to.

pandaspot

hi

and welcome to the forum

is there any chance you could you edit your post and add some paragraphs in your post? its really hard to read at the moment

i am not sure with the percentages sorry, i would give them a call and ask, other than that i am sure someone with ctax knowledge will be on soon

colacubes

I know its easy to say now but when receiving court documents never ignore them and treat them as urgent, to then hopefully to tell you the court that is, that it has been dropped, otherwise it can get stressful as you have found out.

The fact you ignored the court docs means you may find it hard to argue getting it set aside to appeal, though still worth a try.

It maybe your only option to come to an arrangement again, but that the court order will stand.

Naf

Tax credits work on the previous year, housing & council tax benefit work on present income; you ought to let them know every time anything changes as soon as you can; more money, less, different hours etc.
I agree, council's breakdown of their calculations are impossible to understand, I'm also not surprised (although I empathize) that they didn't send anything simpler to you.
Did you put it in writing that you intended to with-hold that payment? I'm not sure you have the right to do that with council tax either to be honest; not like a contract with a commercial provider where you can not pay when there is a dispute.
They can only have 2 attachments at a time max, and the second is taken at a lower rate than the first, although I forget the actual rates involved.
My suggestion is to go into their contact centre and sit with someone to discuss the whole lot, have the calculations explained, make an official complaint about the way they have handled it, and ask if they will remove the attachments based on a payment agreement. Also take a full income/expenditure breakdown to clearly show what you can afford. (I have a template on excel that'll do most calculations for you if you want it).

welshmoneylover

roguetrooper72 wrote: »

New to posting on forums, so please be gentle!
A bit about myself first to get the general idea. I work full time and my wife stays at home to look after the baby, we also have 3 kids at school. We recieve child tax credits and working tax credits. We applied for council tax benefit about 8 years ago and recieve that too.
Right now for the problem:
Every year we get our council tax bill which outlines our benefit entitlement. So we have normally been paying around £25 per month in council tax. We also take into the council office each year wage slips, p60, tax credit award notices like they ask for to prove we are entitled to and how much benefit we should recieve. As we have always provided the proof we took it for granted that the people that our council tax pays for are capable of doing their job right and working out how much council tax we should pay each month. Well turns out we were wrong and it has now turned into a rather costly and worrying problem. A couple of years back I was unemployed for 2 months, yet I never mentioned it to the council as we continued to pay what we should have, my tax credits rose slightly but nothing significant. Then the following year we took all the stuff into the council again and when we got our bill the council tax had dropped to £15 per month. Bonus we thought and presumed it was because we were recieveing more in tax credits than the previous year. And again because we provided the information that they wanted we thought nothing more on the matter. Then the following year the bill went back upto around £25 per month again never thought anything off it as we provided all the details and proof. Half way into the year we recieved a letter from council saying we owed around £500 for unpaid council tax dating back over last couple of years and it would be taken out of next payment. So we phoned up to enquire why we owed money when we paid by direct debit to be told they had calculated the benefit wrong as the tax credits work on the year previous. So I pointed out if that was the case then surely I had paid too much council tax for the year previous to that. To be told it doesn't work that way!! So asked for them to send out all the details and how they worked it out. We recieved a letter which just had loads of figures on it with no real indication as to what the figures were or what they meant. So phoned again asking for a clearer version and explaination. Didn't recieve anything, so cancelled the direct debit as I couldn't afford a bill of £500 as that was nearly a full months wages. I also told them I would with hold payment until they explained how much I should be paying at present and how they figured out I was in arrears. Never heard anything till about 4 months later when we recieved a court summons. So again on the phone and came to an agreement we would pay £30 a month on top of the normal monthly payment and that they would drop the court case. Then two weeks after what would have been the court case we recieved a letter from the court saying they found in favour of the council and we would have to pay the £500 plus court costs within 7 days or if we have come to an agreement to ignore the letter and stick to the payments. So we ignored the letter. We then recieved another letter from the court asking for my work details which I ignored as we had come to an agreement. Now the council has a stupid pay system online which will only allow one payment to be made to the account and as they had asked me to pay the normal amount then a seperate payment of £30 it wasn't working so I put the two payments together and told the council what and why I had done. Have since been making payment trying to get rid of the debt. Now today I have recieved a letter from the court stating that they had arranged an attachment of earnings order for 2 seperate court cases surrounding the council tax. Now the two problems I have is I only ever recieved one court summons so why 2 court dates and I now have two attachements which are not very clear one for £599 and one for £297 now from what I can gather is looking at the table on the back they can take 7% of my earnings now is that 7% for each order or do they do one order first then the second? if they take both orders at 7% each that will be around £100 out of my wages each month which we are living on the bread line already and I know for a fact I could not afford it. Also where do I stand with this whole situation as it seems very unfair that they make a mistake and I have to pay severly for it and the council used underhand tactics by telling me to not worry about the court case as they would sort it!

Sorry if it doesn't sound too clear but at moment we are very worried as money is extremely tight at the moment and are not sure how we will cope.

Do not NOT pay council tax, they will come down on you quite hard.

Naf

colacubes wrote: »

I know its easy to say now but when receiving court documents never ignore them and treat them as urgent, to then hopefully to tell you the court that is, that it has been dropped, otherwise it can get stressful as you have found out.

The fact you ignored the court docs means you may find it hard to argue getting it set aside to appeal, though still worth a try.

It maybe your only option to come to an arrangement again, but that the court order will stand.

OP didn't just disregard court letters, the letters said (like the ones I have had) they could ignore the letters if they had come to an arrangement, which they believed they had, and were paying.

Naf

OP, do you still have the letter(s) confirming the payment arrangements you set up for the arrears, and your annual schedule of payments for this year's bill?

roguetrooper72

No they never sent a letter with an arrangement, it was arranged over the phone. My work has a law society which I will ring for advice and am also trying to make appointment at CAB

roguetrooper72

Naf wrote: »

This isn't York Council is it? I've had similar nightmares with them.
Unfortunately, you have little option but to do what they say as non payment of council tax is... (wait for this...) AN IMPRISIONABLE OFFENCE!
I'm surprised you received only one summons here: although they said they'd drop the court case, councils rarely do this, once they have the ruling they can do lots more in the way of claiming it back off you. I can explain the two different attachments; one for the current year, and one for the arrears (both probably have costs added too). If you only make one payment, it automatically all goes to the arrears and not to the current year; current year's payments have to EXACTLY match what your schedule of payments says. I think the only thing you can argue here is why its gone to attachment of earnings when you have an arrangement you're keeping to.

No it is Blackpool council!! Apparently had 2 court summons but was only told of one but thinking how many months prison would £1000 be, could do with a short holiday!!

Naf

Even over the phone they should send a letter confirming the details of the agreement.
Unfortunately councils believe they are a law unto themselves; they know their consumers aren't customers in the typical sense, and have no option but to do what they want, and can't just change suppliers... its disgusting the way they treat people, especially those most in need of their support. I am currently putting together a complaint over their treatment of my arrears and the way they have simply disregarded the arrangements I have made.
You will only get the attachments lifted if they agree to do so. There are local council ombudsmen, but you have to go the full way through the council's own complaints process first, and then the ombudsman only looks at whether they have acted within their own terms. Its terrible.