Best web design courses? Is web design a good job? =]

alisonmeyers

relic wrote: »

As for your website, it's simple and to the point, wouldn't expect much more for the prices you're charging.

I agree with this. There's really no need for much more for the client you've provided the website for. It would be a waste of money and waste of your time.

Just don't project your own exposure into the web development environment and claim you know its details. You don't.

It comes across as slightly arrogant. And I'll admit I don't even truly know how websites work, I just picked up bits and pieces from my bro,and whilst I was working there. I couldn't claim to be a website developer, even though I could probably string together a page or two and get a domain registered.

But it doesn't make me a website developer And that's the distinction we were trying to point out to the OP. Not trying to diss your (perfectly useful) hobby sideline!

[Deleted User]

Discodave wrote: »

Would like to see some sites you have done and prices you charged.

Sorry, i'm not actually a web-developer (gave up on that idea when i realised i'd get paid more to do healthcare IT). However, in the past i've done sites costing between £50 and £4500. Most are offline now since i gave up doing it 6 years ago, one is still going and i'd rather not post the URL (but it was free anyhoo). About the last page i made, 4 years ago was just a demo page - http://carlink.co.uk/demo.htm and http://carlink.co.uk. I was quite proud of the code-free mouse-over menu.. it just used CSS. Ho hum, long time ago.

So, as i'd guessed, about 2 days effort to customise a template. Fair enough really. Not ripping anyone off, but not exactly a decent earning career either and very hard to get enough full time contracts to do it day in, day out.

E4X is still confusing me, so i've decided my basic understanding of JavaScript needs an overhaul so i'm reading http://eloquentjavascript.net

Discodave

@AilsonM - to be honest, I have a friend who is/was (not sure as I've not spoke to him for ages) a SEO expert and he said if it wasn't for the money SEO people can charge, he wouldn't be doing it as he didn't think it really helped anyone (and he knows his stuff)

Don't get me wrong, he seems to know his stuff, but when I've asked him in the past for help, he's wanted to charge me (not so much of a friend then!).

I didn't mean to sound as though SEO doesn't work, what I meant was you can do a good a job without paying it for, then you can stumping up big lumps of cash each month.

relic wrote: »

Sorry! I didn't mean to, I just wanted to point out that there is much more to be a web design rather than a few basics.

As for your website, it's simple and to the point, wouldn't expect much more for the prices you're charging.

Good luck with your efforts, and apologies for coming across so strongly!

TBH, I think there's a difference in a Website Designer, and Web Developer. Main difference, about £20k per year in some parts.

jennikitten

To go back to the original topic, it's not worth doing a course, especially not for something like Dreamweaver. Dreamweaver is designed for anyone to be able to use, so as long as you can use something like Microsoft Word, you can use Dreamweaver at a basic level. Most likely the class will be full of people who have only just signed up for an email address in the class they did last term/year.

Like someone else said, you can find everything you need online for free, except the motivation.

If you have a lot of friends/contacts, you will find customers a lot more easily by word of mouth, but recommendations should start to build up anyway. If you try and target your local area rather than the entire web, that can help too. People like local people, and people who can visit them or pick up the phone for a chat. The good thing about web design is that when you're starting out, you can base it around the other more important things in your life, such as family and a full time job. If it doesn't take off for you, then it doesn't take off and you haven't lost anything, except some free time.

Discodave

ringo_24601 wrote: »

So, as i'd guessed, about 2 days effort to customise a template. Fair enough really. Not ripping anyone off, but not exactly a decent earning career either and very hard to get enough full time contracts to do it day in, day out.

if that was aimed at my template (the solarconcept.co.uk/test one) its taking me longer than I would have liked - i was aiming for 4 days max, from start to finish including purchasing domain, editing, recoding (slightly to company requirements). I've had this on the go for about double that, although not working on it every day, due to the fact I'm waiting for content from them.

the www.gentlehands.co.uk one is not pre-designed and took me a day to do as I had the content to hand, and all necessary info (colour schemes, logo etc). This one does need looking at though, so I may look at templates, to give it a more "salon-ie (is that a word?) feel. This is the missus site, so i'll be a free revamp.

Question for AM, Ringo and Relic - Had i not stated the Solar Concept site was designed using a pre-designed temp, would you have known?

jennikitten wrote: »

Like someone else said, you can find everything you need online for free, except the motivation.

If you have a lot of friends/contacts, you will find customers a lot more easily by word of mouth, but recommendations should start to build up anyway. If you try and target your local area rather than the entire web, that can help too. People like local people, and people who can visit them or pick up the phone for a chat. The good thing about web design is that when you're starting out, you can base it around the other more important things in your life, such as family and a full time job. If it doesn't take off for you, then it doesn't take off and you haven't lost anything, except some free time.

http://www.w3.org/, as I think was mentioned previously is a great site to start with. But as you say Jenni, by creating sites for family and friends, get's you some kind of starting point.

relic

Discodave wrote: »

if that was aimed at my template (the solarconcept.co.uk/test one) its taking me longer than I would have liked - i was aiming for 4 days max, from start to finish including purchasing domain, editing, recoding (slightly to company requirements). I've had this on the go for about double that, although not working on it every day, due to the fact I'm waiting for content from them.

the www.gentlehands.co.uk one is not pre-designed and took me a day to do as I had the content to hand, and all necessary info (colour schemes, logo etc). This one does need looking at though, so I may look at templates, to give it a more "salon-ie (is that a word?) feel. This is the missus site, so i'll be a free revamp.

Question for AM, Ringo and Relic - Had i not stated the Solar Concept site was designed using a pre-designed temp, would you have known?

I would have, yes. You can tell the design and the look of the website isn't designed specifically for solar energy. But that is from experience of seeing a lot of user designed templates, and websites built from templates. Oh, and the fact it mentions the template in the source code a fair few times gives it away too ;P).

As I said though, for the prices you are selling your services for, and probably the businesses you are aiming at, i'm sure they won't find too many faults with your work!

[Deleted User]

discodave - yes.. it looks like a template, they all look 'flashy' in a certain way. The logo also doesn't quite suite the design either. It's not a bad template though

From my personal and professional experience, I've found that the less you charge people, the more bother they cause you. Do you write 'scope' documents before you start work? I guess my experience in IT consultancy has probably changed how i would go about doing a site now... i'd chunk the work into various phases (Scope, design, build, internal testing, user acceptance testing, support) and bill accordingly.

Discodave

relic wrote: »

I would have, yes. You can tell the design and the look of the website isn't designed specifically for solar energy. But that is from experience of seeing a lot of user designed templates, and websites built from templates. Oh, and the fact it mentions the template in the source code a fair few times gives it away too ;P).

As I said though, for the prices you are selling your services for, and probably the businesses you are aiming at, i'm sure they won't find too many faults with your work!

As i said, its under construction, so any mention of "karma" won't exist when I'm finished! :T

ringo_24601 wrote: »

discodave - yes.. it looks like a template, they all look 'flashy' in a certain way. The logo also doesn't quite suite the design either. It's not a bad template though

They choose the logo and template :rotfl:

alisonmeyers

Discodave wrote: »

Question for AM, Ringo and Relic - Had i not stated the Solar Concept site was designed using a pre-designed temp, would you have known?

Yes. I've spent 30 seconds on the site and can tell from a number of factors.

• Alt tags on images not changed. "Premium Website Template" is a dead giveaway.
• The coding of the HTML is extremely neat - see all of the comment layout for the sections. I'd expect a programmer to do that, like my OCD DH (he mainly does back end stuff with databases though, but I don't know much more than that).
• I've seen these "sheek"/Mac-style templates all over the Wordpress free theme websites.
• File names: e.g. karma-teal-grey.css - makes me believe that the template comes in a range of colours for purchase, or maybe even a bundle pack.
• File paths: Putting the CSS file in its own directory? The norm for templates, not so for a tiny little custom built website for a local plumbing company (or whatever).
• Naming conventions for elements on the page - too generic. Div classes called by numbers? Not normal for a custom built website.
• Bad coding / omission of old code. See where you call the IE 8 stylesheet? There. From that I can also see that you're using Wordpress (it just "looked" like one too).

Basically you're using this:

http://themes.truethemes.net/Karma/

... aren't you?

Discodave

alisonmeyers wrote: »

Yes. I've spent 30 seconds on the site and can tell from a number of factors.

• Alt tags on images not changed. "Premium Website Template" is a dead giveaway.
• The coding of the HTML is extremely neat - see all of the comment layout for the sections. I'd expect a programmer to do that, like my OCD DH (he mainly does back end stuff with databases though, but I don't know much more than that).
• I've seen these "sheek"/Mac-style templates all over the Wordpress free theme websites.
• File names: e.g. karma-teal-grey.css - makes me believe that the template comes in a range of colours for purchase, or maybe even a bundle pack.
• File paths: Putting the CSS file in its own directory? The norm for templates, not so for a tiny little custom built website for a local plumbing company (or whatever).
• Naming conventions for elements on the page - too generic. Div classes called by numbers? Not normal for a custom built website.
• Bad coding / omission of old code. See where you call the IE 8 stylesheet? There. From that I can also see that you're using Wordpress (it just "looked" like one too).

Basically you're using this:

http://themes.truethemes.net/Karma/

... aren't you?

Yes, well devised sherlock!

Like I say, most, if not ALL your points stated above will not exist once its complete. I shall rename ALT tags, and the css file etc.

What do you mean by Div classes as numbers, and also the thing with IE8 hun? If you're that good, would you mind looking over the website once its complete this weekend please? Oh, and no, not using WP either!